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Cider Digest #1932
Subject: Cider Digest #1932, 16 January 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1932 16 January 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: Taking Cider a little further into "Calvados" or Apple Brandy ("Charle...)
Wassail (Tom Schoonover)
Taking Cider a little further into "Calvados" or Apple Brandy (Michael Arighi)
Re: Cider Digest #1930, 13 January 2015 Re: Bottle conditioning (David McEwan)
Re: Wassail (Dick Dunn)
Re: CD 1930; Bottle conditioning comments from Dick Dunn (David McEwan)
Question about posting questions on the discussion forum (Sujin)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: Taking Cider a little further into "Calvados" or Apple Brandy
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:18:54 -0600
Keith,
Yes, beverage spirits are typically made in stills with copper in the hot
vapor path. It's important for the chemistry that removes sulfide and CN.
Good for flavor - you don't want to drink what comes out of a glass still.
You may want to consider a hybrid pot with column still for fruit brandies -
like they use for Armagnac, rather than Cognac.
In cidermaking, Cu and Fe are pesky because they cause dark brown and black
pigment problems (casse). In distilling, it stays in the pot. And it's not
much - otherwise your still would dissolve. Copper isn't allowed for
cooking/serving of acid foods (other than distilling - much to the chagrin
of fans of a cocktail called a Moscow Mule) - so often the condenser is made
from stainless steel, and only vapor contacts copper.
Depending on your local rules, Cu in the stillage _might_ be a waste
concern. Here, I hear more stories about BOD - biological oxygen demand -
content.
If you have 500L of 5%ABV cider (10 proof), then you have 50 proof-liters of
potential spirits. (a distillers unit) (500*(10/100). Figure 80% recovery
during distillation. That's low-ball - you can get up to about 95% - but not
with a 2 pass alembic process. So 40 proof-liters. (50*0.80) Now, that
will likely be about 120-130 proof. If you put it into the barrel at 125
proof (going for a spicy note from the wood, rather than highlighting toast
and nuttiness of the wood by barreling at 90-100proof, then 40pf-L at 125
proof is 32 wine-liters (again, distilling jargon - simple volume liters.
40*(100/125). So you'd want a 30L barrel, starting from 500L of cider. You
should be able to figure out the barrel size for 40pf-L at 90proof, from
these examples.
Distilling is highly regulated everywhere. I understand that the way it's
taxed in Germany favors quantity over quality. (Taxed on potential alcohol,
rather than final yield.) You'll want to study your local rules carefully.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery & Distillery
------------------------------
Subject: Wassail
From: Tom Schoonover <webmaster@schoonoverfarm.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 18:22:26 -0800
We will wassail the evening of the 17th Jan. We have never done this
before and will post up results. If any cidernuts or experienced
wassailers are in the Skagit County area of Wa. state please e-mail me
and come on over, it should be fun times.
Thanks,
Tom Schoonover
Schoonoverfarm
------------------------------
Subject: Taking Cider a little further into "Calvados" or Apple Brandy
From: Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 23:03:45 -0500
In Digest #1931, Keith McCanna asks several questions about making apple
brandy.
The volume of alcohol you get will be close to the ABV of your base, if
your distillation equipment and technique are good.
I'm not at all sure about the heavy metal contamination issue. I do know
that copper pot stills are the standard of excellence and I've had
products from them in several countries over many years and, at 67,
don't appear to be showing any ill effects.
I know the laws in Germany are much different from those in the US
regarding distilleries (I've very happily tasted distilled products at
farmers' markets there, just like strawberries). I wish I had the bottle
at hand--it is, unfortunately, about 3000 miles away at the moment--but
there is a small distillery near Owingen, on the northeast edge of the
Bodensee, that makes a fabulous apple brandy with a small (maybe 1-2%)
back sweetening with apple juice. The organoleptic effects are quite
amazing. I like Calvados, but would drink this 3:1 over even a good
Calvados every time. The distiller is a master craftsman and would be an
excellent source for consultation (the story I heard was that he and the
Graf of Baden-Wurttemburg, for whom he previously worked, parted ways
over the distiller's preference for quality over quantity).
Michael Arighi
(Oakland, CA, temporarily in Baltimore, MD)
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1930, 13 January 2015 Re: Bottle conditioning
From: David McEwan <david.c.mcewan@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 15:49:58 +1100
Thanks Dick for your clarification on carbonation levels. I was intending
to aim for 10g/l sugar, rather than 10g/l CO2 although Eric Pennel's
comments are well worth noting, not that I am involved in US Federal taxes,
but from the potential for confusion on units and big messes.
On that note I would like to use apple juice concentrate as the sugar
source but I need a simple method of determining that. The juice
concentrate I use does not disclose the carbohydrate content (probably
unlawful but there you are). I have asked the producer and their best
guess is "we reduce by a factor of 7 or 8". Trying to measure Brix at that
concentration is off the scale. Any thoughts on how to proceed before I
demolish the cider store?
David McEwan
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Wassail
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 22:10:02 -0700
In the last CD, Ol' Joe asked about wassailing,
> Do any other cider makers practice this and with what results ?
We've done a bit of the fireworks (such as are legal) and the toast and
cider for the trees. We've stopped short of firing a shotgun...even though
it would technically be legal here, it seems like really bad form late at
night. (And Joe, I would -strongly- suggest you not fire a gun into the
air where -you- are...but you know that!) We would normally wassail at
Epiphany rather than later in the month, but we missed that this year.
So maybe we will give Saturday a try.
Results? It was silly. It was a touch of fun. It reminded me that the
orchard is out there, at a time of year when it's easy to walk past it
to the ciderhouse, without thinking much about it.
The orchard, as far as I can tell, cares not.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: CD 1930; Bottle conditioning comments from Dick Dunn
From: David McEwan <david.c.mcewan@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:14:13 +1100
Thanks Dick for your clarification on carbonation levels. I was intending
to aim for 10g/l sugar, rather than 10g/l CO2 although Eric Pennel's
comments are well worth noting, not that I am involved in US Federal taxes,
but from the potential for confusion on units and big messes.
On that note I would like to use apple juice concentrate as the sugar
source but I need a simple method of determining that. The juice
concentrate I use does not disclose the carbohydrate content (probably
unlawful but there you are). I have asked the producer and their best
guess is "we reduce by a factor of 7 or 8". Trying to measure Brix at that
concentration is off the scale. Any thoughts on how to proceed before I
demolish the cider store?
David McEwan
------------------------------
Subject: Question about posting questions on the discussion forum
From: Sujin <eesujin@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 10:45:14 -0500
How do I post a question about cider making?
Thanks for your help!
Susan Yi
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1932
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