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Cider Digest #1970
Subject: Cider Digest #1970, 9 June 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1970 9 June 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: Cider Digest #1968, 4 June 2015 (Bernard Smith)
Re: Fighting the freeze monster (Dick Dunn)
Re: Cider Digest #1969, 7 June 2015 (Steury and Noel)
Cider History. (Charles McGonegal)
.Brewing cider, and use of ale yeasts in cidermaking (Stan Sisson)
Re: Cider Digest #1969, 7 June 2015 (Bill Rhyne)
Re: Geneva Tremlett's (Dick Dunn)
Cider additives cont. (John Howard)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1968, 4 June 2015
From: Bernard Smith <Bernard.Smith@esc.edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 17:15:06 +0000
Just a quick comment on T.Travest's aside about evaporating the liquid in
apple juice to increase the gravity. The downside to applying any heat is
that you encourage pectins to set and that results in hazy and unclear
cider. An alternative method is to reduce the liquid to sugar ratio by
freezing. In other words, if you take a gallon of juice and freeze it hard
and then allow the juice to thaw the first liquid that thaws will contain
much of the sugar. I believe that the first 1/3 will contain about half
the sugar - so if you collect the juice as it thaws and you constantly
monitor the gravity you can obtain a gravity closer to wine (about 1.090)
rather than one associated with pressed juice (about 1.050). Freezing then
can be achieved in the winter (in these parts anyway) and so there is no
need to apply any energy to increase the sugar content - it is perhaps a
poor man's ice wine
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Fighting the freeze monster
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 17:03:40 -0600
Al wrote:
> I got hit with 24.4F/-4.2C between midnight
> and sunrise on May 23, and sustained a 100%
> bloom/bud kill along with injured trees.
Al, I feel yer pain, believe me! Last November we got hit with a sudden
very hard freeze. Went from a rather mild start of the month to -15F/-26C
in the course of less than two days. It killed a bunch of trees which
weren't shut down for the winter and couldn't react fast enough.
By tree -count- I lost about 1/3 of my orchard, although it's not that bad
for potential yield--most of the trees I lost were 1-2 year. It's just a
case of losing a couple years which hurts as you get older.
I can't imagine any system that would have produced enough heat to prevent
the losses I had.
It's a case of "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you
wanted." I now know better which varieties are really hardy in the
extremes we might see; I'll adjust my replanting accordingly.
> I'm past the phase of deep depression and am
> working to heal my remaining trees and come
> up with a strategy to fight back next spring.
I'm not surprised at the blossom kill, but can you tell if your trees will
get a do-over on leaves? I'd say keep an eye on them for another month or
so, and baby along any that try to put out a second set of leaf buds. With
only (yeah, "only"...) 24 F, seems like the damage should be limited.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1969, 7 June 2015
From: Steury and Noel <steurynoel@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 18:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Fighting the freeze monster
> From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org <javascript:;>>
> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2015 19:31:28 -0400
>
> I got hit with 24.4F/-4.2C between midnight
> and sunrise on May 23, and sustained a 100%
> bloom/bud kill along with injured trees.
>
>
> http://happydogfarm.com/post/119788536645/over-2-hours-below-26f-the-other-nig
ht-clear
>
> I'm past the phase of deep depression and am
> working to heal my remaining trees and come
> up with a strategy to fight back next spring.
>
> It's no use belaboring that my planting is on
> low ground with cold air drainage
> throughout. It's what we own and that's that.
>
> I've read the following paper and am looking
> into putting in portable ground
> misters/sprinklers to use ground heat
> harvested by the installed/underground
> irrigation system to raise the air
> temperature near the ground.
>
> http://glexpo.com/summaries/2012summaries/weather_risk_management.pdf
> (Go to page 8)
>
> An increase of 4F might have left me with
> some fruit, and mitigated the damage to the
> other trees. The installed pump (20 gallons
> / 76 liters / minute) was sized for drip
> irrigation. I'd gladly swap it out for a
> higher capacity pump if necessary. There is
> no risk of running this well dry.
>
> I'd like to know if any growers have
> experience with this tactic, and any tips.
> For example: What temperature to start
> pumping water? What volume of water per acre
> for an effective temperature increase? Have
> you combined the sprinklers with another heat
> source? (I'm thinking making a T-cap for my
> oil-fired side-arm heater and aiming misters
> at it to create local steam.
>
> Please share your experience. This season is
> more than a loss to me and I have to do
> something to fight back in the future.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Al Yelvington
> Not-so-Happy Dog Farm
>
> ------------------------------
Al,
Here in North Idaho, we had such a mild winter our bloom was three weeks
early. Gorgeous bloom. Then the frosts we normally get in early May hit
with a particular vengeance. Mid-20s every night for a week. Half our
varieties were full-bloom. We lost 3/4 of the potential crop. So I feel
3/4 of your pain. I can't believe we have anything left. Interestingly,
the Golden Russets gave me another reason to love them, as they
miraculously did well. Anyway, to the point, there's a lot of good info
out there on using overhead irrigation for frost control. It is not
straightforward. In fact you can do more damage. We're entirely drip, so
am not about to convert, but every night in early May I was considering it.
Tim Steury
Steury Orchards
------------------------------
Subject: Cider History.
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 20:09:27 -0500
Brilliant, Steve. Brilliant.
Sent from my iPhone
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits
(262)496-7508
------------------------------
Subject: .Brewing cider, and use of ale yeasts in cidermaking
From: Stan Sisson <sdsisson62373@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 19:22:55 -0700
- --001a1140eeb4cbf7bd0517f85100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thought I would chime in on the subjects of "brewing cider" and using ale
yeasts in cidermaking.
Re "brewing cider", I suspect that it is partially related to the number of
new cidermakers migrating from the craft beer world into the cider world.
Cider is currently seen as an alternative to beer, not as an alternative to
wine. It is typically packaged and consumed like beer, oftentimes at beer
geek bars. All of these factors tend to make people think brewing, when
they should be thinking winemaking. Does not help that most modern
cideries look like breweries, with big, shiny fermenters, and stainless
steel kegs in full view.
Re using ale yeast in ciders, this is something many cidermakers should be
looking into. I did a comparison of 7 different White Labs yeast strains
in neutral Kirkland apple juice a while back. WL is a local company for
me, living in San Diego, and they were happy to supply the yeast.
The ciders were judged blind side-by-side, with BJCP scoresheets filled out
for each cider, by BJCP ranked judges, as well as by the 7 cidermakers
participating. The ciders were then ranked by members of the public at the
White Labs tasting room, blind as well. The results were, most to least
popular:
WLP002 English Ale
WLP028 Edinburg Scottish Ale
WLP862 Cry Havoc
WLP775 English Cider
WLP500 Trappist Ale
WLP575 Belgian Blend
WLP810 San Francisco Lager
These results were interesting, and deserve further experimentation. Also,
our local meadery, Golden Coast Mead, switched from a wine yeast to the
dried version of Cal Ale, which is Safale US-05. The meadmaker said even
though the ale yeast is more expensive, it makes better mead than the wine
yeast did, .
I have all the details on the yeast comparison, and it was published in the
Nov/Dec 2013 issue of Zymurgy magazine as well. Feel free to contact me if
you have interest in this subject.
Cheers!
Stan Sisson
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1969, 7 June 2015
From: Bill Rhyne <bill_rhyne@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 20:12:03 -0700
Re: historical additives for cider and comments about pasteurization
In my research, I found the phrase "a rat in every vat" to refer to added
"protein" to get the fermentation started in old English cider making days. I
imagine that the rat fell in by accident but the phrase captures the concept
of nutrients used to wake up the yeasts and to kickstart the fermentation.
Re: pasteurization
When making Rhyne Cyder, we used fresh pressed apple juice and "heat-treated
juice" that had been heated to 140degrees Fahrenheit to prevent early
fermentation. We had good results from both types of juice.
After fermentation, blending, bottling, and 2-3 weeks bottle conditioning
to build up natural carbonation, we would do a gentle pasteurization (20-30
minutes at 145-150 degrees Fahrenheit to stop the secondary fermentation
in the bottle. This process captured the volatile molecules that make
up the pleasant aroma or bouquet. Pasteurization at higher temperatures
(180degrees) would have produced the cooked flavor, exploded the bottles,
and defeated our purpose.
Again, the cider maker needs to have a vision of what the final product will
be and then develop the technique and/or technology to realize the vision.
Just saying...
Bill Rhyne
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Geneva Tremlett's
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 08:34:22 -0600
In the last Digest, Drew Zimmerman suggested that the mis-IDd North
American Tremlett's Bitter, now colloquially Geneva Tremlett's, may be
properly identified as Skyrme's Kernel.
Looking at the description and plate in Herefordshire Pomona, what I have
fits much of the description but not all. My fruit is more nearly round
and the ribbing at the apex isn't as pronounced. The color is somewhat
more uniform on the sunny side. Differences aren't enough to rule out the
ID, but I wouldn't be so sure. Looking at a photo of Skyrme's by Jez Howat
on the Cider Workshop, I'd say that's much closer to what I have. But,
then, is there a mismatch between the modern and Hogg&Bull Skyrme's?
I also have a couple weird misgivings: First, "Skyrme's Kernel" is going
to be almost universally misspelled -and- mispronounced. Second, if this
ID turns out to be incorrect too, we've got a double-botch on our hands.
I saw a table which indicated that Geneva has Skyrme's Kernel. This table
also indicated Tremblett's(sic) Bitter as a separate variety, but we know
Geneva has the false Tremlett's.
How much more do we know about Skyrme's Kernel? How about DNA testing
before we accept "Geneva Tremlett's" == "Skyrme's Kernel".
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Cider additives cont.
From: John Howard <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 13:11:48 +0000
I bow to Mr Wood's deep knowledge of the American cider tradition, but
note his lack of information about Southern American cider folkways. In
the traditional apple growing regions of southern Appalachia it was not
uncommon for a live frog to be introduced to a barrel of fresh juice.
Modern cidermakers have speculated that this practice may have had the dual
benefit of aerating the young must while ultimately contributing to yeast
nutrition. In late summer, a stuck fermentation could be re-started with
the introduction of a small unwanted dog. Similar to the early Quebecois
tradition, much of this cider was used for the washing of hogs.
John Howard
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1970
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