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Cider Digest #1904
Subject: Cider Digest #1904, 7 October 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1904 7 October 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1903, 3 October 2014 (WV Mountaineer Jack)
Re: sulfiting parameters, and cider research (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: pressing pears (Charles McGonegal)
Pressing pears (chris horn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1903, 3 October 2014
From: WV Mountaineer Jack <wvmountaineerjack@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 13:06:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sulfiting parameters, and cider research
Interesting questions. It seems over here with so much wildlife, deer and
wild pigs running around, that NOT picking apples off of the ground has
become commonly accepted as SOP. It also appears that most cider apple
growers are growing "supermarket" presentation pretty apples with few
blemishes? vs the lower spray for less than perfect fruit that is advised
for cider fruit but hard to practice for orchardists who are driven to make
perfect apples. If you collect wild apples I think the UK SO2 standards
are applicable, if you are a low spray with some scabby apples and a bit of
summer diseases keep the levels up, but if you are using pretty apples you
might have a point that less is needed. Another consideration is that these
pretty apples will have also been fertilized and not stressed by bugs or
disease so will have higher nitrogen levels than the typical cider orchard
in the UK so our yeast nutrients may also need to be looked at for cider
orchard vs traditional modern apple orchard practices. WVMJ
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Subject: Re: sulfiting parameters, and cider research
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:22:14 -0400
In Cider Digest #1903, 3 October 2014, Dick Dunn wrote:
>Subject: sulfiting parameters, and cider research
>
>It raises the question of whether North American cidermakers might be
>over-sulfiting. Presumably any cidermaker with integrity and good sense
>isn't going over the "safe" level of 200 ppm. But is our fruit enough
>cleaner and less "aged" that we might use substantially less without risk?
This is in my sense a question of great importance. I am quite
sensitive to sulfite in cider, and probably my major problem with
commercial ciders in North America is that I can often taste the
sulfite when I drink the cider, and this totally ruins my pleasure -
to the point I prefer to throw it down the drain rather than drinking it...
Why is this? I never taste the sulfite in wine, even if wines are
almost always sulfited. When in Europe, very seldom did I taste it in
ciders. Why is it then that I can taste the sulfite in roughly half
of the commercial North American ciders that I have tasted? Why do
the North American cider makers have this tendency of over-sulfiting
their ciders?
I understand the reasoning however - commercial cider makers don't
want to risk a batch of cider, having exploding bottles or wierd
bacteria giving strange tastes to their ciders, plus, they don't know
how the cider will be kept after it is gone from the cidery, if it
will be kept at good temperature... so they add sulfite for security.
And many prefer to add a bit more than a bit less. This is all very
natural and understandable. But some drinkers are put off by this.
The other question is - what is more disturbing when drinking the
cider, the free or the total SO2? There is a legal limit of 200 ppm
total but is this really the important issue? I have always assumed
it was the free sulfite still present at moment of drinking that
could be tasted. Hence sulfiting before the beginning of fermentation
should not affect the taste of the final product because most likely
this initial sulfite dose will all be bound when comes time of
drinking. I think it is the sulfite added at bottling time that is the culprit.
I have never done it, but it would be interesting to measure the
amount of free SO2 required for it to be easily detectable by taste.
This threshold would likely be different from a person to another.
Would it be 10 ppm free sulfite at drinking time, or 20 ppm? I don't
know, but my gut feeling is that the number probably is smaller than
most think. It would certainly be worth making a study on this.
Claude Jolicoeur
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook
http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/
http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_new_cider_makers_handbook/
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Subject: Re: pressing pears
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 07:48:53 -0500
I have some practice with Bartlett, Bosc and Comice pears. Practice with
numbers. 2.2 to 2.6 gallons per 40 lbs. The Bosc being the driest. It
works out to a similar number of gallons per bushel, compared to apples,
if you use the USDA pear density of 60#/bushel.
We get the best results from pressing a little on the hard/green side and
using a custom grinder plate with a lot of the centers between holes drilled
out. Perry pears we let sit in the cooler for a couple of weeks. Seems to
develop nice pectins.
I also have practice with perry pears - but don't have the weights
handy. I think they come out on the high end of the range above. Like our
bittersweets, they don't yield much freerun after grinding. That frustrates
our pressing crew, who are accustomed to sloppier dessert fruit. They use
an impeller pump from grinder to press - sloppier pumps better.
You can make okay common perry with dessert pears. Be prepared to adjust
the acidity a lot. As in 3-4 g/L citric. Watch for sulfide production -
pear seems very prone to it. Be ready to fight hazes.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits
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Subject: Pressing pears
From: chris horn <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 15:19:54 -0700
I recently weighted a few crates of perry pears before I pressed them.
They were Blakney Red and then Thorn. I was using a electrical basket
press (Correll Medium Plus). The pears were showing some signs of bletting
internally. Charles M.'s new book on pears is good about showing some
level of bletting but I don't think mine has as much as what he showed.
When all was said and done, I got about 50% by weight from the perry pears.
I didn't use a pressing aid and it was pressed as soon as it was milled.
I think it varies quote a bit variety to variety on what sort of yield you
can get, but some perry experts will speak in more general terms than I can.
Chris Horn Scappoose Oregon USA
'Nothing will work unless you do.'
-Maya Angelou
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End of Cider Digest #1904
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