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Cider Digest #1949
Subject: Cider Digest #1949, 23 March 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1949 23 March 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1947, 16 March 2015 (Marsha Lindner)
Re: Cider Grinder & Press ()
Re: Cider Digest #1947, 16 March 2015 (Deborah Shafer)
Back sweetening with conc (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1947, 16 March 2015
From: Marsha Lindner <blindner@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:26:53 -0400
We press between 35-60 gallons of juice each year. We have used our old
Hocking Valley grinder and press for 27 years and decided to purchase a new
grinder last year. The set screw in our old grinder didn't always hold
and the grind was not always ideal. We purchased the small 6" grinder
from OESCO and use the old press. It is an efficient combination for us
and allows us to get more juice from the apples.
Marsha Lindner
Cincinnati
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Subject: Re: Cider Grinder & Press
From: <cruise2@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:46:28 -0700
I bought a Correll Press new, and used it for several years before stepping
up to a much larger, full hydraulic machine. The press is well built,
sturdy, easy to use, and has a motorized grinder! I highly recommend it. I
do not recommend buying a press featuring a hand-crank grinder!! (The finer
the grind, the greater the yield).
Gene Davis
Davis Products, LLC
Auburn, Wa.
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1947, 16 March 2015
From: Deborah Shafer <drdeborahshafer@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:06:22 -0500
of the off-the-shelf grinder/presses that Claude listed in a previous
message, the Correll seems to be the only one with a motorized grinder
that looks pretty similar to the design shown in the New Cider Maker's
Handbook.
Does anyone have any experience with the Correll grinder/press? I saw
a video on You Tube and it looked like they had to stop fairly
frequently and remove jammed apples from the grinder box.
------------------------------
Subject: Back sweetening with conc
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 23:12:27 +0000
On 04/02/2015 21:15, Nat West wrote:
>> Subject: Back sweetening
>> From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
>> ...
>> If you are using AJC, be aware that this is not sterile. It contains
>> osmo-tolerant and preservative-resistant yeasts such as
>> Zygosaccharomyces baillii which will have a field day in your cider!
>
> Andrew, I don't think you're saying that all AJC contains Zygo baillii?
> What if the AJC is made from pasteurized juice and kept cold (assuming the
> pasteurization of the juice is "good"). Is it widely common for Zygo to
> appear in AJC?
Sorry I hadn't replied to this earlier. I didn't want it to go
unanswered, but I was waiting until I'd had an opportunity to discuss it
with someone in a large UK cider company who is both an in-house
producer of AJC and also a purchaser of AJC from external sources. I
wanted to know if things had substantially changed in the last 15 years
or so since I did any work on conc myself.
The message is that conventionally prepared and stored AJC can still
contain significant amounts of osmotolerant yeasts such as Z bailii as
it always did in my day (10^3 - 10^4 cfu/g). You can often see the gas
bubbles at the conc surface. However, there is a bigger emphasis these
days on AJCs with low TVC's (total viable counts) down to < 10^2 cfu/g,
and nowadays this is often set in the buying spec (though of course you
pay more for the higher spec AJC). There is no single way to get to
these low levels but it's a combination of factors which work together.
Amongst these are:
- - Use of cross-flow filtration of raw juice before evaporation.
- - Holding the fresh conc at 55C (its normal exit temperature) for a
period to self-pasteurise, before cooling (the reason for cooling the
conc is to stop Maillard browning, so this is a trade-off between
chemical and microbial stability).
- - Only doing a CIP clean on the evaporator outlet pipework once a season
(that's because any residual water left after CIP can dilute the conc
and encourage microbial growth).
- - If conc is to be bulk tankered, pasteurising and hot filling it into
the tanker.
- - For long term AJC storage, keeping a constant low temperature (ideally
4C) or keeping tanks indoors rather than outdoors to minimise temp
fluctuations (that's because a major source of microbial growth in concs
is from condensate 'drip' from the tank roof back down onto the conc.
This causes local dilution and allows yeast colonies to establish in
those slightly more dilute regions on the conc surface).
- - Purging the headspace with dry CO2 gas and maintaining it at a few psi
positive pressure (which is not only inhibitory to yeast growth but also
reduces the humidity thus minimising the condensation issue).
- - Minimising the headspace volume by storing AJC in full horizontal
tanks not vertical ones.
etc etc. It's all about attention to detail. That's how you can
nowadays get AJC with very low TVC's and specifically minimise Z baillii
growth. My remarks apply to AJC in B2B trade. Once it gets repackaged in
small containers for retail sale, or by people who don't have a real
understanding of the product, contamination could easily re-occur of course.
The reason to worry about Z bailii in particular is because it's
osmotolerant, hence is selected for in AJC where other yeasts will die
out, but it's also highly sulphite resistant unlike normal Saccharomyces
hence it has the serious potential to become a spoilage yeast in cider.
The UK cider industry knows it well!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
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End of Cider Digest #1949
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