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Cider Digest #1938
Subject: Cider Digest #1938, 31 January 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1938 31 January 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1936, 28 January 2015 (WV Mountaineer Jack)
Re: Cider Digest #1936, 28 January 2015 (SMB WEBER)
cidermaking and mead (Cider Digest Admin)
Measuring Brix in concentrate (Andrew Lea)
Back sweetening (Andrew Lea)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1936, 28 January 2015
From: WV Mountaineer Jack <wvmountaineerjack@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:34:05 +0000 (UTC)
SOP for many meadmakers already to preserve the varietal characteristics of
the honey vs old method of boiling the honey to pasteurize it. If you want
just add KM just like in mead, also adding some nutrients like fermaid. Some
people add carbonate at the beginning as a buffer, unlike apple juice
honey alone doesnt have much in the way of other nutrients. Cysers are
fun to make with the right apples and if combined with the right honey,
even darker ones, and made with wine yeast you can get a little extra
sweetness and body from the honey. WVMJ
Subject: applying cider fermentation principles to mead
From: James Dodd <doddey86@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 23:32:30 -0700
I understand that this forum is not focused on mead making but I was hoping
that someone could at least have some insight on this subject. Cider makers
tend to be the only group to not view low and slow as crazy or too risky.
Why couldn't the same idea of low temperature, slow fermetations be applied
to mead making as well? I would assume I may need to plan on some nutrient
additions ( to save from having final gravities that are too high), but
why wouldn't a slow fermentation be beneficial for preserving the honey's
characteristics? What issues would cause this to be risky? Too high a ph
to protect from infections at the beginning before yeast gets going is the
only issue i can think of. What could i do to help that issue? Could I at
least try and apply this methodology to Cyser if not a traditional mead?
Thank you ahead of time.
James
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1936, 28 January 2015
From: SMB WEBER <weberscrossing9@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:59:40 -0500
Just want to second J. Dodd's questions about cider v. mead, as we are and
will be confronting similar issues. I understand that a mead discussion
group has become inactive and that some might prefer, quite reasonably,
that a cider discussion focus on cider, so what to do? Since I am a brand
new poster, please advise what protocol and rules are appropriate. A
second sub-group for the cyser and fruit mead crowd?
------------------------------
Subject: cidermaking and mead
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 21:01:14 -0700 (MST)
re recent interest in mead alongside cider (and cyser of course): Janitor
suggests a gentle push, nothing strict, to staying close to cider here.
My alter-ego rcd suggests a technical point on the admin question:
Some things we do share with mead, such as the "low and slow" question (low
temp and slow ferm?). Cidermakers often wonder why brewers have such an
opposite approach (fast and furryass), like "what's so different??", and
meadmakers have good reason to wonder which camp they're in. It's a
relevant puzzle-piece.
Yes, the Mead-Lover's Digest did die by atrophy. There are other mead
forums around. (Try gotmead.com as a starting point.)
If you're not sure whether to send a mead-semi-related article here, think
whether it ties in with cider somehow. Think about the cidermakers who
have no interest in mead, whether they'll consider your note OT.
It's not a big problem; don't worry.
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Measuring Brix in concentrate
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:21:41 +0000
On 17/01/2015 David McEwan wrote:
>
> I would like to use apple juice concentrate as the sugar
> source but I need a simple method of determining that. The juice
> concentrate I use does not disclose the carbohydrate content (probably
> unlawful but there you are). I have asked the producer and their best
> guess is "we reduce by a factor of 7 or 8". Trying to measure Brix at that
> concentration is off the scale. Any thoughts on how to proceed?
AJC is typically 72 Brix. If you have a hand refractometer the easiest
way to measure the Brix is to dilute the AJC accurately with water to
bring it back on scale. So for example you could take 1 part by weight
of AJC and add 3 parts by weight of water (it must be by weight not
volume). Mix it very well, measure the Brix of the resultant juice and
multiply the result by 4.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Back sweetening
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:32:57 +0000
On 30/01/2015 Susan Yi wrote:
> We would like to back sweeten some of our cider and we are likely to
> experiment with sugar and apple juice concentrate. If you have any
> experience or advice with back sweetening, please advise.
The most important thing about back sweetening is to decide just how you
will prevent re-fermentation. People sometimes don't appreciate the real
threat posed by residual or airborne yeast. Just a few cells creeping
through or drifting in is enough to start fermentation all over again.
The safest way for the amateur is in-bottle pasteurisation. Cheap and
effective and virtually 100% foolproof. See here for details
http://www.cider.org.uk/part4.htm#sweet
Sterile filtration is very difficult to achieve at home because you just
can't ensure an effective sterility chain. And preservatives like
sorbate are too unreliable to recommend safely. Keeving and removal of
nutrients is a possible route but this begins long before the cider is
even made.
If you are using AJC, be aware that this is not sterile. It contains
osmo-tolerant and preservative-resistant yeasts such as
Zygosaccharomyces baillii which will have a field day in your cider!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
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End of Cider Digest #1938
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