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Cider Digest #1983
Subject: Cider Digest #1983, 28 August 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1983 28 August 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
slow digests (Cider Digest Admin)
RE: Cider Digest #1981, 6 August 2015 (Mark D Schichtel)
Re: NYS Farm Cidery/Winery License advice ("C. Thomas")
Re: Evolution of the Harbor Freight cider press ("C. Thomas")
NY Farm Cidery/wine license (Tom)
In response to Christoph Dietzfelbinger's shuddering.. (Phillip Kelm)
NYS Farm Cidery/Winery License advice (Seth Jones) (Andy Crown Brennan)
RE: Cider Digest #1982, 19 August 2015 (Gertsen-Schibbye Sigrid)
question on reduction (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: slow digests
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:11:32 -0600 (MDT)
Folks - Sorry about the slow pace of Cider Digests coming out in the past
month or so--my fault here. They should pick up now.
- --ye janitron
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1981, 6 August 2015
From: Mark D Schichtel <mds@schichtels.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 18:54:20 +0000
Regarding Saskatoon Cider -
Christopher,
We grow 1,000's of amelanchier shrubs and trees at our nursery in New
York State. I have used the berries to flavor beer and was very pleased
with the end product. I do not think the berry on its own will produce
enough juice to make cider. However, use the berries to back flavor cider
and I think you will be very pleased.
Mark D Schichtel
Schichtel's Nursery Inc
7420 Peters Rd
Springville NY 14141
716-725-2061
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Subject: Re: NYS Farm Cidery/Winery License advice
From: "C. Thomas" <thomas.cris@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:58:58 -0400
cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> 5. What kind of timeline have people experienced? I'd like to have it all
> in place by spring when the cider is ready.
I too would be interested in any advice or experiences in this area for
NY or other states (particularly PA)
I have heard that it can take upwards of 6 months to get the federal
license and then additional time to secure the state license on top of
that. I have also heard that you can not ferment anything until you have
your licenses. That the licenses aren't just about selling but about
producing. That of course would preclude anyone from trying to ferment
this year and sell in the Spring.
- - C. Thomas
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Evolution of the Harbor Freight cider press
From: "C. Thomas" <thomas.cris@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:16:16 -0400
cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> I just posted a video detailing the current
> form of my press on YouTube:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkn8YeNgkS4
Just a quick note to say thanks for your video series on your Harbour
Freight press. Between your videos and Nat's I was able to learn quite a
bit and have built my own press that I hope to put through its first
pressing this year.
I was going to make my juice tray out of aluminum from one of the local
restaurant supply places near Philadelphia but all the quotes I got were
several hundred dollars. I made one myself out of Oak, Still cost me a
bit but was much cheaper than AL.
For press trays I am using cut up bread trays like I saw in one of Nat's
videos. No idea how well they work but they only cost me about $3 each.
They are getting hard to find though as many bakeries are switching to
cardboard bread trays.
I ordered some Drapery material for press cloths from an online fabric
shop fro $2 a yard, no idea how well it will work but I am cautiously
optimistic.
Only thing left for me is to find some food safe buckets without
spending a fortune. Oh and finding some Apples.
- - C. Thomas
P.S. Alan I looked but haven't seen a video of your press actually
pressing Apples. If you get a chance this season I would love to see
your press in action.
------------------------------
Subject: NY Farm Cidery/wine license
From: Tom <tom@elfsfarm.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:11:22 -0400
Suggest spring is optimistic. Contact NY Wine & Grape Foundation.
First you need your entity - llc, c corp, S corp, etc. You need your physical
location. Then TTB license, which took us 9 months to obtain. Then NY
licensure, which took almost 1 year to obtain. I understand it is quicker
now and you can apply simultaneously and online. Are you a farm?
Slainte Mhath
Tom Frey
Adirondack Cider Co
------------------------------
Subject: In response to Christoph Dietzfelbinger's shuddering..
From: Phillip Kelm <phil_kelm@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 03:27:57 +0000 (UTC)
I have to respond with my own shuddering.... Please help turn off the
Reinheitsgebot "purity" nonsense. I'm happy to live in a country that
doesn't tell me how to make beer--or cider. Nobody tells a German pastry
maker what ingredients go in a strudel. Are raisins in sauerkraut an
abomination? Should this also have a royal decree against the perceived
pollution of German food standards? And why are German brewers not
allowed to use fresh, wholesome, organic food products (like coriander,
for example), in their beer but are OK with highly processed, fertilizer
and pesticide UN-free, green slime they call "Hop Extract" made in a huge,
technologically advanced extraction facility? Is that why it takes 6
years in chemical engineering school to manufacture beer in Germany?
As for "Literally nothing else"; how about salt in Gose from Leipzig?
Or Berline Weisse with woodruff or raspberry syrup poured in their beer?
Radler anyone? And the purity law does NOT mention yeast (1516 and all...)
I don't mind a "purity guideline" if someone insists on making one for their
own amusement. Just don't force it down my throat. I'd move to Belgium.
Soapbox finished.
BTW, Saskatoons (AKA serviceberries) are delicious in a cider. If you
would try one of Michigan's many fine ciders--JK Scrumpy's Northern
Neighbor/Farmhouse Cider Saskatoon Cuvee, you might like it too. It gets
a 95 score on Ratebeer, and Cidersage blog raves on it. Phillip Kelm-
www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com,
Worldwide Brewery Installation & Engineering Services;
Manager of Palau Brewing Company,
Home of Red Rooster Beers;
Owner of Gitche Gumee Ciderworks,
Feral Ciders from Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
------------------------------
Subject: NYS Farm Cidery/Winery License advice (Seth Jones)
From: Andy Crown Brennan <CROWNARTS@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:31:18 -0400
Hi Seth,
You first need your federal license and since they don't recognize the NY
state "farm-cidery" law you need to apply for a "farm-winery" license. The
fed express annoyance whenever you even mention state rules. It sounds like
you will want the NY state farm-winery license anyhow since you are making
high alcohol ciders- errr, wines.
Look, there's a lot of grey hair coming your way, but expect a 9 month
minimum before you see results. It's good to know the rules and what each
regulator expects of you so there is some benefit to the crawl.
You are welcome to email me questions about your NY state license but
focus on the fed. The federal part is all online.
- -Andy
- --
Aaron Burr Cider
Hudson Valley/ Catskills NY
845.468.5867
Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Cidery/123637988892> , Twitter
<https://twitter.com/TheCidery>, AaronBurrCider.com
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1982, 19 August 2015
From: Gertsen-Schibbye Sigrid <sbriand@lallemand.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:41:12 +0000
With all due respect to the Reinheitsgebot, it was established to avoid the
brewers using the more valuable wheat and rye that was needed to keep the
prices of bread down for the bakers. So the Purity Law is really a Bread
protection law and not a Beer protection law. Even the lovely German beer
called Hefeweizen is in flagrant violation of this law!
------------------------------
Subject: question on reduction
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:08:59 -0600
There's a question back in Cider Digest 1980 about "reduction" that never
got an answer; it traces back to a question from Paul Rasch in CD 1976
about his cider from dessert apples going "flat" tasting.
"info@cidery.com" had written "Your cider taste watery and flat from
reduction" and Seth Jones asked:
> Can you explain a bit more what you mean by reduction. Might be semantics
> but I'm not clear what you are referring to. Thanks
"Reduction" in this context means the opposite of "oxidation". To
illustrate the term (tho not in the context of Paul's question), yeast
early in fermentation have a "reducing" effect on cider--that is, they
pull out oxygen.
BUT, that said to explain to Seth, I don't at all accept the idea that a
cider becomes "flat" as in insipid because of lack of oxygen. Moreover,
trying to introduce oxygen after fermentation is done is a terrible idea.
It will create faults worse than what you're trying to fix.
One possibility for Paul's problem, that I think wasn't mentioned earlier,
is a film yeast removing both character and alcohol...although after a film
yeast really gets going it will contribute unpleasant character of its own.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1983
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