Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1925
Subject: Cider Digest #1925, 29 December 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1925 29 December 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Peter Mitchel - sterile filtration (Tom)
Response to Peter Mitchel (Tom)
Re: beginning cider making questions (Claude Jolicoeur)
RE: Cider Digest #1924, 26 December 2014 (Gertsen-Schibbye Sigrid)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Peter Mitchel - sterile filtration
From: Tom <tom@elfsfarm.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 18:22:13 -0500
Reply to Peter Mitchel on Sterile Filtration-
"I have never had any luck with sterile filtration.
On occassion, I will run the cider through a 0.25um filter prior to
bottling.
Heck, yeast should be taken out at 0.45um.
I usually get some activity in the ..."
Peter, questions on your technique on filtering:
1. Plate or membrane filters.
2. Do you use several passes eg 7 um, 1um then .45um?
3. Prior to bottling do you dry steam or run boiling water through the entire
set up from tank line to and through the bottler for at least 20 minutes?
4. Are disposable gloves in use?
5. How do you sanitize bottles?
Tom Frey
518-593-7904
------------------------------
Subject: Response to Peter Mitchel
From: Tom <tom@elfsfarm.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 18:33:22 -0500
"I have never had any luck with sterile filtration.
On occassion, I will run the cider through a 0.25um filter prior to
bottling.
Heck, yeast should be taken out at 0.45um.
I usually get some activity in the ...."
Peter
Could you outline your process such as type filters, how many filter
sizes and how many size reductions, how you sterilize your system from
tank through bottler (boiling water or dry steam), how do you sanitize
the bottles, do you use gloves, how much residual sugar is in your cider,
how many rackings to reduce lees, etc.
The two biggest improvements we made were three filter passes- 7, 1 and
.45um with the last two as membrane filters and purchase of a dry steam
unit which we run for 20 minutes through everything, including the bottler.
Tom Frey
Adirondack Cider Company=
------------------------------
Subject: Re: beginning cider making questions
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:48:04 -0500
In Cider Digest #1924, 26 December 2014
>Subject: beginning cider making questions
>From: SMB WEBER <weberscrossing9@gmail.com>
>
>We allowed different batches of milled apples (home grinder that uses a
>sink garbage disposal) to sit for anywhere from 1-2, maybe 3, days before
>pressing, often keeping them overnight outside when external temps were in
>30s-40s F.
This is very long maceration period... Normally a few hours to half a
day is plenty.
>Added a little acid before sealing in glass carboy with air
>lock. Acidity seemed low given that we at least wanted to start with wild
>yeasts.
Did you measure acidity before adding? The fact that acidity seemed
low doesn't mean it is actually low considering the sugar in the
fresh juice hides it.
>Foam seems to have gone away, mostly, but airlock keep gurgling. We wonder
>how much may be due to fermentation slowing because of lower temperature
>now versus fermentation with wild yeasts coming to an end.
It is normal that fermentation slows down as it proceeds.
>We have not
>introduced sulfites at all yet and hoping we might get by for a while
>without doing so. We are trying to decide whether we should sanitize the
>must now and welcome comments about it, given what we've done thus far.
Do not add sulfite during fermentation - it is useless. Sulfite may
be added before fermentation if you wish to kill wild
micro-organisms, or once it is finished to protect the cider as it is aging.
If you have an active wild fermentation, adding sulfite will not stop
it - if this is what you thought of doing...
>Must does not fill carboy completely to neck of jar; but airlock keeps
>gurgling........ Wondering how much of a threat the larger exposed surface
>of the must is.
As long as active fermentation is going, it is OK, but later, it may
become problematic.
>Should we sanitize must before introducing cultured yeast or just add
>cultured yeast?
Why would you add cultured yeast? If you have a wild fermentation
going, just let it go. It should do the job.
You should get an hydrometer to monitor the fermentation - otherwise
you have no idea of where you are.
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1924, 26 December 2014
From: Gertsen-Schibbye Sigrid <sbriand@lallemand.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 09:34:48 +0000
Hello Susan,
Have you tasted the cider, recently? Or taken a gravity reading? This
might be a good indication of what is happening in the fermentation.
As long as the airlock is moving, there is at least something happening and
positive CO2 pressure being generated to avoid oxidation and oxygen-friendly
organisms taking the forefront.
At lower temperatures(50-54'F and less), the more 'opportunistic' yeast
tend to get a foothold before the more alcohol resistant/sensorially
interesting yeast can get going at temps in the range of 58'F.
If you are happy with the result of what the wild fermentation has given
you, then I would recommend adding the full dosage of active dry yeast
(ADY). Under inoculating the ADY at this point will only put them under a
fair amount of stress to 1) build their biomass with limited nutrients left
in the must, 2) overcome and adjust to alcohol level, 3)add some interesting
sensory notes and 4) complete the fermentation as you are hoping, to dryness.
When you write sanitize the must, do you mean adding SO2, before adding
other yeast?
If you do this, you will most likely kill any ML bacteria that are active
in the must. If this is OK with you (after you have tasted the cider).
What did you mean by this: Acidity seemed low given that we at least wanted
to start with wild yeasts.
Are you trying to drop the pH, by adding some acid?
It seems to me like you would like a little wild yeast, a little SO2,
a little fermentation and a little bit of ADY yeast to help finish it all
off. This is a lot to ask both the wild fermentation to do, and also the
cultured yeast. Either let the wild yeast do what they are doing, or add
some SO2 and 'add some culture' to your fermentation! Commit to one or
the other :-)
I hope this helps!
Sigrid
Subject: beginning cider making questions
From: SMB WEBER <weberscrossing9@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:51:57 -0500
We are making our first real batch of cider and only read about doing it.
Would welcome any advice anyone has time to pass on.
We allowed different batches of milled apples (home grinder that uses a
sink garbage disposal) to sit for anywhere from 1-2, maybe 3, days before
pressing, often keeping them overnight outside when external temps were
in 30s-40s F. Apples also sat for a while before milling and juice is
viscous. Added a little acid before sealing in glass carboy with air lock.
Acidity seemed low given that we at least wanted to start with wild yeasts.
Initially, the must sat in our kitchen for at least a week. Temperature was
65-68 degrees F on average. Fermentation started and seemed to progress
well: a 2-5 inch head of foam developed, then died back a little but still
had plenty. We moved must to side porch where temp stays in 50s range,
mostly in mid to low 50s (it is unusually warm here now, getting to around
58 degrees F outside yesterday; this made things warmer where the must is
now; we have no way to lower temperature there).
Foam seems to have gone away, mostly, but airlock keep gurgling. We wonder
how much may be due to fermentation slowing because of lower temperature
now versus fermentation with wild yeasts coming to an end. We have not
introduced sulfites at all yet and hoping we might get by for a while
without doing so. We are trying to decide whether we should sanitize the
must now and welcome comments about it, given what we've done thus far.
Must does not fill carboy completely to neck of jar; but airlock keeps
gurgling........ Wondering how much of a threat the larger exposed surface
of the must is.
Should we sanitize must before introducing cultured yeast or just add
cultured yeast? If we add sulfite, we thought we'd try reduced dosage
in case any wild yeast might survive a little longer. We would like
fermentation to complete dryness, but wondering how long we should allow
wild yeasts to continue, if they are continuing.
Thank you for any advice or comments.
Susan
SMB Weber
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1925
*************************
