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Cider Digest #1868
Subject: Cider Digest #1868, 18 April 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1868 18 April 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Cider Vinegar Q (Josh Kellermann) (Alan Yelvington)
Re: Golden Russet (Scott Smith)
Cider Vinegar Q (Andrew Lea)
CiderCON 2015 Save the Date! February 3rd - 6th, 2015 in Chicago, IL ("Uni...)
Re: Cider Vinegar Q (Seth Jones)
Cider Vinegar Questions (Bob Capshew)
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Subject: Cider Vinegar Q (Josh Kellermann)
From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:55:57 -0400
Josh,
I suspect that you may have put your cider in an area that was too cold
and/or too clean. I started my vinegar in mid-summer in the basement.
The cheesecloth is was as much for the dust as for the flies, and the
Mother appeared within a week.
Another issue may be your sulfur level, but I seem to recall that the
bacteria required are not impacted by healthy levels of sulfur.
It does sound like you have mold. Skim it off, move to a warmer area,
try again.
Al Yelvington
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Subject: Re: Golden Russet
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 21:35:25 -0400
> On the question of the difference between different types of Golden
> Russet, I'd think the best reference to look at would be the Apples
> of New York by Beach. This is in 2 volumes, but the Golden Russet and
> similar apples will be described in vol.1.
> You can download it from here:
> http://www.archive.org/details/applesofnewyork01beaciala
>
> In page 118, you will find the difference between English Russet and
> Golden Russet.
> Claude
Claude, it is more confusing than this. "Golden Russet" in Beach has
synonyms "English Golden Russet" and "Golden Russet of NY", etc. The
"American Golden Russet" is the apple listed primarily as "Bullock" in
Beach. Downing had called it "American Golden Russet", but Beach
states, "There are so many Golden Russets we prefer to follow the
Catalogue of the American Pomological Society (12) and Hovey (10) and
retain Coxe's name Bullock". The "English Russet" you reference above
is a third russet apple different from the other two; and, there is even
Golden Russet of Massachusetts in Beach which is usually called Hunt
Russet.
Given all these different apples with similar names it is clear they
have often been mixed up. If you read the descriptions of Bullock and
Golden Russet in Beach they are clearly different apples. My impression
is all of the specimens I have bumped into called "Golden Russet" are
the Golden Russet of Beach and not Bullock. My own "Golden Russet" is
from Cummins and it also matches the description of Beach.
In order to find the supposed American Golden Russet/Bullock, I am now
growing out an "American Golden Russet" from Botner as well as an
"American Golden Russet" ultimately from Lee Calhoun. Botner has
Bullock also listed but when I requested it it did not come. All I care
is I hope I end up with something different than my Golden Russet!
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Vinegar Q
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:10:51 +0100
On 17/04/2014 00:53, Josh Kellermann wrote:
> 5 gallons of fully fermented cider and turn it into vinegar.
> In mid-January I took the top off one 5-gallon carboy, put some cheese
> cloth over the top, and let it sit.
> Now, 3 months later, it seems to be doing nothing. There is no "mother,"
> there is no distinct vinegar smell, but there is kind of a thin whitish
> coating at the top of the cider that looks more akin to mold than mother.
> I added some braggs cider vinegar to the batch about 3 weeks ago to see if
> the mother in that would get things going, but it doesn't seem to have
> helped.
You haven't mentioned temperature. You need a minimum of around 20C /
68F for Acetobacter to work. The white film is probably just a film
yeast. If you add a cider vinegar as a starter it must be unpasteurised
so it contains live bacteria. See http://www.cider.org.uk/part6.htm
> I don't have any special acid measuring equipment other than pH strips. I
> measured approximately 3.4 pH at full fermentation and it still is in that
> range today.
Counter intuitively, the pH of vinegar is not actually much different
than that of cider. So pH strips won't tell you anything. Buy a
titratable acid kit and measure acid. You are looking for a value of
around 5% (acetic) acid. You will actually have to dilute your vinegar
10 times with distilled water to bring it into kit range, and then
multiply the figure you get by 10. If the kit gives results 'as tartaric
acid' multiply also by 0.8 to convert to 'as acetic acid'.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: CiderCON 2015 Save the Date! February 3rd - 6th, 2015 in Chicago, IL
From: "United States Association of Cider Makers" <cidercon@ciderassociation.org
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:25:07 -0400
CiderCON 2015 Save the Date! February 3rd - 6th, 2015 in Chicago , IL
CiderCON 2015
February 3rd - 6th, 2015
Save the date!
Swissotel, Chicago
Cider Conference 2015 heads back to Chicago!
Hello cider@talisman.com,
I am proud to announce CiderCON 2015 will be hold at Swissotel Chicago,
February 3, 4, 5, and 6, 2015. This beautiful hotel is located downtown,
at the confluence of the Chicago River and Lake Michigan. With ample space
for the growing number of attendees, numerous rooms for breakout sessions,
a seated lunch and an expanded Cider Trade Show, we know you'll enjoy this
new venue!
Call for Presentations: The Cider Conference Committee's goal is to provide
a comprehensive, one of a kind educational experience for the Cider Industry.
We are now accepting presentation proposals for CiderCON 2015 and invite
you to share your cider expertise and knowledge. Please fill out the Call
for Presentation Form now to be considered.
Swissotel Chicago will take reservations for CiderCON 2015 under a
discounted block rate of $119/night starting April 23, 2014.
Registration for CiderCON 2015 will begin July 1, 2015.
You will receive more notices as the planning process moves on. For now,
please Remember to Save The Date!
Cheers,
James Kohn
Chair, Cider Conference Committee, United States Association of CiderMakers
Co-Owner, Wandering Aengus Ciderworks
Copyright © 2014 United States Association of Cider Makers. All rights
reserved.
Contact email: cidercon@ciderassociation.org
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Vinegar Q
From: Seth Jones <setjon@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 10:44:45 -0400
Josh
Had many of the same problems when I started making vinegar from my cider.
I found that ambient temperature is critical. I waited months overwinter
and then when the temps began to climb things took off. I don't know if
that applies to your probably overwarm NYC apartment. The other thing is
the exposure to oxygen. The mouth of a carboy just doesn't really let
enough air in to contact the cider for a quick conversion. I'd recommend a
wider mouthed crock or pail so the surface gets more air. Even with a loose
lid on it will work better. Also keep in mind that 5 gallons is actually a
lot of cider and will be a LOT of vinegar. It will take time.
I also used a bottle of braggs to get things started and the vinegar has
turned out great.
I am also an upstate/NYC dual lifer and I could hand you off a piece of my
mother (that's a sentence I never expected to write) in the city if you
want. It's been going great for about 5 years now. Contact me off list if
you want.
Seth Jones
Wits End Orchard
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Vinegar Questions
From: Bob Capshew <bob.capshew@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:23:52 -0400
In response to Josh Kellermann's questions about cider vinegar making, I'll
offer some ideas from my 5 years of commercial vinegar making. When making
vinegar the first rule is to ignore the rules of good cider and wine
making. A carboy is not the ideal containter to use for vinegar making.
You need lots of airspace for the mother of vinegar bacteria to grow. I
would recommend a cylinder shaped food grade container such as a bucket
covered by cheesecloth. Josh did not mention the temperature in January
but the ideal temperature for vinegar making is around 80 degrees F.
Another common vinegar inhibitor is sulphites which are used to clear and
preserve cider but should not be used in vinegar production.
Vinegar is approximately ten times as acidic as wine and should have at
least 4% acidity. Acidity may be measured by taking 1 ml of vinegar and 9
ml of distilled water then following the acid titration kit instructions.
Try these steps and be patient. A rule of thumb is that it takes about a
week to convert each per percent of alcohol to vinegar.
Good luck,
Bob Capshew d/b/a Capshew Cellars, New Albany, Indiana
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End of Cider Digest #1868
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