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Cider Digest #1833
Subject: Cider Digest #1833, 20 December 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1833 20 December 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Conical fermenter ("Bud and Jen")
RE: brief notes on "easy oaking" cider (Dick Dunn) (John Howard)
Re: Cider Digest #1832, 18 December 2013 (Dan Daugherty)
Re: Cider Digest #1832, 18 December 2013 (Darrel Martin)
Re: brief notes on "easy oaking" cider (Clay Spence)
Oaking Cider (jejanicke)
Why slats? (Re: brief notes on "easy oaking" cider) (Dick Dunn)
Cider Conference 2014 Vendor Announcement ("United States Association of C...)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Conical fermenter
From: "Bud and Jen" <budandjen@bresnan.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:58:01 -0700
HI,
Can anyone please comment on the pros and cons of using beer style conical
fermenters for a small commercial cidery? I will be using pressed and rough
filtered fruit from our orchard, not filtered juice or concentrate.
Thanks,
Bud DeSmul
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Subject: RE: brief notes on "easy oaking" cider (Dick Dunn)
From: John Howard <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:14:40 +0000
Dick, thanks for the process notes. Not surprised a 350 oven worked best,
if making perfectly golden croutons is any guide. I've been happy adding
a note of oak to ciders that have undergone a careful malolactic
fermentation. Maybe it's the familiarity of a chardonnay profile that
makes it appealing. Typically the more successful ones have high original
acid levels. By careful ML fermentation I mean, frequent sampling and then
shutting it down with a shot of SO2 when it seems about right. Then add
the oak. I have a surplus of insipid cider from letting ML go too far,
oak won't save it, although its still great for cooking tripe!
Best,
John Howard
Philadelphia
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1832, 18 December 2013
From: Dan Daugherty <dpdaug@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:27:02 -0700
Re: Oaking Cider (#1832):
Are the LD Carlson oak chips (or others along these lines) any good? These
are generally 4 oz or 16 oz bags of rather finely pulverized oak with
either a light or medium toast and show up in home brewing/wine-making
shops. Seems convenient, but I have no idea what the origin of the oak in
question is...
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1832, 18 December 2013
From: Darrel Martin <darmtn@frontier.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 04:32:09 +0800
Dick,
I make up to 20 gallons of cider each year and have never considered
flavoring my cider but you have me curious about oaking. I do like an
oaked wine so why not cider? I have some questions. First, have you
actually succeeded, do you like your oaked cider? Second, when you refer
to the contact area of the oak strips are you talking about adding up all
sides of the oak strip or just one face of the strip? And third, I?m
assuming you add the oak to the secondary ferment is that correct and for
how long?
Thanks,
Darrel Martin
------------------------------
Subject: Re: brief notes on "easy oaking" cider
From: Clay Spence <clayorama@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:21:05 -0500
Oaking beer and wine is done pretty frequently. There are oak "beans" and
other such products for just this purpose available for the home beer and
wine maker. Some sources recommend avoiding American oak, instead using
French or Hungarian. 100 sq in for 5 gallons sounds like a lot to me,
compared to what I've seen recommended, but I've never done it. I'm also
typing off the top of my head, so to speak, so I may be remembering
incorrectly.
Clay
------------------------------
Subject: Oaking Cider
From: jejanicke <jejanicke@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:00:53 -0700
Please tell us how long these freshly cut and toasted oak strips should =
remain in the cider under normal conditions. Thanks. OleJoe=
------------------------------
Subject: Why slats? (Re: brief notes on "easy oaking" cider)
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:38:40 -0700
I've had some off-list comments, and there will probably be some on-list in
this digest, to the effect that you can get various forms of oak for
fermenting/aging: chunks, cubes, shreds, sticks, spirals, even powder.
So how did I end up with sticks/slats?
I don't like chunks or shreds because you don't know how much surface area
you're getting, and they're quite variable. Cubes are better--more
uniform--but the calculation is still dicey (sorry!).
No experience with the powder (fine shreds) but I wonder if you'd need a
filtering step to get rid of it. On the other hand, if it settles out
reasonably well, wouldn't the potential effect be quite variable depending
on how fast it settled and how it compacted?
The spirals are a neat idea, but they're ridiculously expensive. You can
figure out the surface area, although it's a bunch of fiddly calculation.
At least you'll get a reasonably repeatable surface area from one spiral
to the next...if you calculate correctly. (Why couldn't the manufacturer
do this calculation for you and just tell you the number?)
A stick or slat is easy enough to measure and tote up the surface area.
You can size them so you can fish them out of whatever fermenter you've
got, when you figure they've had enough time--unlike the other forms where
you're likely into a racking to remove the oak. Tip on that: Drill a hole
near one end of each slat; then you can loop a cable tie ("tie-wrap")[*]
through the hole(s) to make them easy to grab. This will also hold them
together if you're using multiple strips. If you do that, you might want
spacers to keep the slats apart enough that liquid can move among them.
Note to the unwary: waterlogged white oak will sink. Oh, hey, did you
know that the lid gasket on a Corny keg also will sink?...but I digress...
[*]I haven't investigated the food-safety properties of ordinary cable ties,
nor have I tried the food-industry cable ties which I'm told exist. I just
use the plain white ones since that eliminates the concern of a colorant.
Cable ties are made of nylon, which is historically regarded as food-safe.
If this thinking (OK, rationalization) bothers you, you might use thin
food-grade silicone tubing.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Conference 2014 Vendor Announcement
From: "United States Association of Cider Makers" <cidercon@ciderassociation.org
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0500
Save the Date - Cider Conference 2014, February 5, 6 & 7, 2014, Chicago, IL
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Key Keg keykeg.com
Knouse Foods knousefoods.com
Pall Corporation pall.com/foodandbev
Prospero Equipment Corporation prosperocorp.biz
Quality Tank Solutions qts4u.com
Saxco International saxco.com
Scott Labs scottlab.com
Serigraphie srimtl.com
United Bottles and Packaging unitedbottles.com
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Registration and Tentative Schedule for Cider Conference 2014 is at
ciderconference.com.
If you haven't already registered for this important cider industry event,
please do!
Date & Location: February 5, 6 & 7, 2014 at Westin Michigan Ave in
Chicago, IL.
Book your room now - Hotel reservations are now being accepted at a
discounted rate at the Westin Michigan Ave
Important Items:
There will be discounted conference fees for members of the USACM. Join
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our volunteer form. Cider Summit (a separate public tastings event)
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Schedule February 4th
Michigan Cidery Tour
February 5
USACM Annual Business Meeting, Distributor's Luncheon and Workshop,
Sensory Analysis Workshop
February 6
Cider Conference sessions
February 7
Cider Conference sessions
February 8
Cider Summit
Location
The Westin Michigan Ave
909 N Michigan Ave, Chicago, IL
Copyright ?? 2012 United States Association of Cider Makers. All rights
reserved.
Contact email: cidercon@ciderassociation.org
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End of Cider Digest #1833
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