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Cider Digest #1823
Subject: Cider Digest #1823, 7 November 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1823 7 November 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1822, 5 November 2013 (Mike Faul)
Perry Pears.. when to press (Tom Hanlon)
Re: Cider Definition in New York (Cider Digest #1822, 5 November 2013) ("G...)
Cider Days at Uncle John's - November 9th & 10th ("Mike Beck")
Sourcing Cider (Ann Leadbetter)
Heirloom Cider Apple Trees (Dustin Hostetler)
Cider Digest now over 1200 (Cider Digest Admin)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1822, 5 November 2013
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 17:33:29 -0800
This is excellent. I am all for this at the federal level. ESPECIALLY
the last part for fruit and CO2
Mike
Red Branch Cider Co.
On 11/5/13 5:05 PM, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> There are several aspects of the new NY definition worth pointing out
> and worth considering in our bid to get a new federal definition,
> including 1) an increase in maximum alcohol content from 7% to 8.5%, 2)
> no limit on the carbonation level or the source of carbonation, 3) the
> ability to sweeten and/or flavor post fermentation with any agricultural
> product.
>
> To the best of our knowledge, no other stakeholders (e.g. wine or beer)
> raised any objections to the opportunities conveyed by this new
> definition. Following is the text of the definition taken directly from
> the NY Senate Bill 5833 that was passed in June and recently signed into
> law by Governor Cuomo.
>
> "Cider" means the partially or fully fermented juice of
> fresh, whole apples OR OTHER POME FRUITS, containing more than three and
> two-tenths per centum but not more than EIGHT AND ONE-HALF per
> centum alcohol by volume: (I) to which nothing has been added to
> increase the alcoholic content produced
> by natural fermentation; AND (II) WITH THE USUAL CELLAR TREATMENTS AND
> NECESSARY ADDITIONS TO CORRECT DEFECTS DUE TO CLIMATE, SACCHARINE LEVELS
> AND SEASONAL CONDITIONS. Nothing contained in this subdivision shall be
> deemed to preclude the use of such methods or materials as may be neces-
> sary to encourage a normal alcoholic fermentation and to make a product
> that is free of microbiological activity at the time of sale. Cider may
> be sweetened OR FLAVORED after fermentation with FRUIT juice,
> [apple] FRUIT juice concentrate, sugar, MAPLE SYRUP, HONEY, SPICES
> OR OTHER AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS, separately or in combination. Cider may
> contain retained or added carbon dioxide.
>
> Bill Barton, Bellwether Hard Cider
>
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Pears.. when to press
From: Tom Hanlon <tom@functionalmedia.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 21:21:33 -0500
Cider people,
I have some wild pears on my land in ohio that I press into Perry each
year.
The description of Perry pears often has a description that includes
something like.
Ripens, October
Days after harvest to press 1 day, or 7 days, or 2 weeks.
What does that "days after harvest to press" mean.
To harvest I shake the trees, and then press when I am able, often the same
day.
Should I let the pears sit and soften before I press? If so.. how soft is
soft enough.
Some years the perry is mild, some years it is quite tart.
Last year I let the pomace sit overnight before pressing. Seemed to soften
the tartness quite a bit.
Thanks for any help or advice you may have.
- --
Tom
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Subject: Re: Cider Definition in New York (Cider Digest #1822, 5 November 2013)
From: "Gary Awdey" <gawdey@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 01:30:21 -0600
Ah, New York. The state that slammed the door in the face of sweet cider
producers who were eligible for small producer exemption from the federal
pasteurization requirement. Now it's a definition of cider that is HIGHLY
inclusive and only excludes...well, what does it exclude? Probably that
pesky ice cider when made from frozen fruit. Freezing, like smoking and
salting, is considered a method of preservation isn't it? So ice cider must
now be made from FRESH, whole fruit, not frozen? Take that, Quebec, with
your ice cider made only from"natural cold." Being facetious of course, and
no insult intended toward either Quebec or New York cider makers. Any state
or province can look a little ridiculous when it defines things arbitrarily
in an inward-facing self-serving way. If you close the door too tightly or
open it too wide in order to serve short-term commercial interests the
resulting interpretations can be amusing (or horrifying).
Presumably it is permissible to use de-stemmed apples without falling afoul
of the new definition requiring the use of whole fruit. Out of curiosity,
when you permit the use of, well, just about ANYTHING for flavoring after
fermentation, as long as it's an agricultural product like wool, cornstalks,
yam skins or feedlot methane (something to provide that extra piquant zing)
what purpose is served by requiring that the fruit used to supply the juice
for fermentation be fresh? Especially since the definition doesn't exclude
fermented juice made from apple juice concentrate (if I'm reading this
correctly) because that starts out as juice from whole, fresh apples. Why
be so unfairly restrictive? You can make apple pie from dehydrated apples
once the apple pieces are rehydrated. Why not make cider from dehydrated
apples as well? What purpose was served in establishing this puzzling
restriction? Unfair discrimination against New York apple growers who
produce fruit for the dehydrated fruit market and want a value-added second
market!
New York could simply have said that all of these other pome-derived and
post-fermentation flavor-unrestricted options will receive the same legal
treatment as cider rather than say that they ARE cider. Or am I being too
fussy in raising that objection?
Once it was simple to know what cider was. Cider was the juice of apples in
pretty much any state of alcoholic fermentation short of nearly complete
transformation into vinegar. Then the idea of taxation and tax policy got
into the picture and complicated it, just as the Temperance Movement did.
Commercial interests follow tax policy with keen interest and try to
influence them when possible. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I like
the idea of perry having the same tax rate as cider (a lot) and hope it
comes to pass with appropriate federal action. However will it still be ok
to call it perry in New York, even though it is made from a pome fruit like
cider is?
Once upon a time (way back, pre-Prohibition) if you added spices,
unfermented fruit juice, etc. to cider or other alcoholic beverage to flavor
it the result was called punch. Historically it was a great, festive way
of dressing up inferior batches of cider or other alcoholic beverages that
may not have been all that interesting on their own. Despite some
illustrious exceptions there's adequate written evidence to suggest that
much of the cider produced in North America a hundred years ago was pretty
awful stuff that could have benefitted from that sort of flavoring. You'd
have to read something older than a can, jug or juice box of
vitamin-fortified indistinctly fruit-flavored non-alcoholic HFCS drink to
know this historical usage of the word so it's hardly surprising that the
meaning of "punch" has undergone as dramatic of a transformation in North
America as "cider" has at the hand of commercial interests during the past
century. The English language is ever-evolving, and meanings change
constantly.
If I've read Bill's posting correctly things are pretty simple now for a
producer in New York. Fermented apple juice? Call it cider. Fermented
quince juice or fermented medlar juice flavored with blueberry and avocado?
Cider, cider. Fermented serviceberry juice flavored with anal gland extract
expressed from farm-raised beaver? Cider. Hooray for upstate New York
agriculture, get those beaver farm business plans ready (and look up your
word-of-the-day, castoreum). Is Catskill beaver anal gland extract as good
of a natural flavor as Adirondack, or would it be wrong to assume that
terroir plays a significant role?
Poor hypothetical beavers, yes, but think of the poor consumers too! How
are they to know what is what, and be sure they are enjoying the latest
flavored beverage fad presented in an exotic fermented pome juice carrier
rather than some cheap apple-derived imitation exploiting the good trendy
name of cider? Can't New York just exclude beverages made from apple alone
without other added flavor and assign some new product name for them so
consumers can tell when they're being rooked? Is there a marketing whiz
who can offer clever suggestions of alternative names for that old-fashioned
innovation-stifling beverage formerly known as cider so it can be
distinguished in the eye of the consumer from the lemon or pumpkin flavored
seasonal ciders that they may have seen in their upstate New York grocery
stores?
The questions or hypothetical scenarios posed and opinions expressed are
mine and do not necessarily reflect the views of any cider organization.
Gary Awdey
Valparaiso, Indiana
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Days at Uncle John's - November 9th & 10th
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:59:26 -0500
November 9th & 10th
In Honor of CiderDays in Western Massachusetts and the exceptionally cool
folks at Pine Hill Orchards in Colraine; Who have been making and selling
cider blends of juice for the Home Cider Maker during that special weekend.
It is hugely popular and brings out the home cider makers from all parts of
New England. In honor of this Uncle John's Cider Mill in St. John's, MI
will be offering several blends for bulk sale. Please bring your own
containers.
Standard Juice Blend: - $4.50/g. - Ida Red, Golden Del. Jonathon, Empire,
Red Del., & Honey Crisp
- - Good blend for New England style and fruit or spiced ciders.
Bushel and a Peck Blend: $5.00/g. - A blend of at least 200 varieties, just
a bushel or so all kind of apples. List provided at mill. (AKA - Eclectic
International Blend)
- - Apples varieties from all over the world make up this blend.
Versatile to try as several styles.
Heirloom Blend: $5.50/g. - Baldwin, Grimes Golden, Winesap, Northern Spy,
Winter Banana, Hubbardston Nonesuch, Wealthy & Rhode Island Greening
- - We use this blend to create our American 150 "Heirloom Cider"
other cideries also buy this blend in bulk from us to make very special
ciders.
CiderDays is in its 18th year and is our country's oldest apple and cider
festival. Cider Makers from across the country and Canada get together for
learning & sharing. This last weekend was no exception. This year we were
joined by Photo Journalist, Bill Bradshaw from Somerset, England who photo
documented the event. Bill also co-authored the recent "World's Best
Cider's" book along with writing companion Pete Brown. Stay tuned to Bill's
blog http://iamcider.blogspot.com/ to see the festival thru his eyes. A
special thanks to the Cider Day's crew that put it all together. Too many to
list but you all know who you are and deserve a thank you.
Please Contact us directly at Uncle John's for questions.
Uncle John's Cider Mill
8614 N US 127
St. John's, MI 48879
mjbeck@ujcidermill.com or 989.224.3686 x-28
------------------------------
Subject: Sourcing Cider
From: Ann Leadbetter <ann.wwfac@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 17:32:53 -0700
Hello,
I'm interested in finding a source of cider/juice we can use to start a
craft hard cidery in Boise Idaho. Does anyone know of where I can buy it
and have it delivered to us? We are starting pretty small, and we probably
won't have much storage capacity, at least not at first.
Thanks for any leads you can give me.
Ann
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Subject: Heirloom Cider Apple Trees
From: Dustin Hostetler <hostetlerfarmsllc@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 16:31:17 -0500
Hello Dick,
I have followed the Cider-Digest for some time now and have found the
discussion's very informative and motivational.
However, I am anxiously awaiting my orchard to come into production before
I will really be able to enter into the conversations.
To that end I would like to address a recent inquiry and the periodic
dialogue about "Apple Cultivars" that occasionally comes up about apple
varieties with a true cider value. My orchard is two years away from
entering the world of apple production.
Conceptually, I believed that first it was paramount to develop a "true
cider orchard" before attempting to make a cider with what I classify as
"grocery store apples" for quick production. This is solely my personal
preference and I do not make this statement to disparage others using
modern cultivars to produce cider. Also, I sought only to use "old
colonial cultivars" or "19th century Apple Cultivars" of American Heritage
Apples as opposed to the English varieties. To this end I did years of
research before the first tree went in the ground to determine my cultivar
selection.
I have been fortunate to find and grow the following Cultivars:
ASHMEADS KERNEL**
BLACK LIMBERTWIG
BLACK TWIG
BLACK WINESAP
BUSHY MT. LIMBERTWIG
CAMPFLIELD**
ETTERS GOLD GILPIN**
GOLDEN RUSSET
GRANIWINKLE**
GRIMES GOLDEN
HARRISON**
HEWES CRAB**
HUNTS RUSSET**
MINNESOTA 1734
NORTHREN SPY**
OLD FASH. LIMBERTWIG
OLD FASH. WINESAP
REDVIEN CRAB
ROXBURY RUSSET**
SMITHS CIDER**
SMOKEHOUSE
SWEET WINESAP
TALIAFERRO
TOLMAN SWEET
VIRGINIA WINESAP
WICKSON CRAB
YATES
YELLOW NEWTOWN PIPPIN**
** These are the prime historical colonial cider cultivars.
The Ashmeads being the only English origin apple that I have but it's
adaptation into Colonial America makes it almost an American apple.
I currently have 8 acres of young Harrison's. The Wickson is the sweetest
apple (25% sugar content) developed by famous California breeder Albert
Etter. It is a must for blending with all varieties. With Wickson in my
orchard I will never use sugar.
In the development of my orchard I began to look for ways to produce value
before the cider begins to come in. I have developed a nursery tree sales
division of these unique apple cultivars and have a limited numbers of
trees for sale this year and a higher number next year and the years to
follow. I want to share with all the members of your blog the fact that I
am now offering these unique cider trees for sale. My trees are grown in
the European fashion and by this I mean the "knip boom" process. These are
two year trees that are bench grafted and raised in a manner that produce a
well feathered tree in two years.
www.hostetlerfarms.com. Here you can find out all about us.
I sincerely hope our unique trees spark interests!
Kind regards,
Dustin Hostetler
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Subject: Cider Digest now over 1200
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 17:19:12 -0700 (MST)
The Cider Digest just recently went over 1200 subscribers. This is more
than 7% growth so far this year.
(OK, that sorta just tells us what we already know--that interest in cider
is seriously on the up-swing.)
Dick
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End of Cider Digest #1823
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