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Cider Digest #1849
Subject: Cider Digest #1849, 3 February 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1849 3 February 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: stabilizing cider ("Charles McGonegal")
New Cider Apple Book (jejanicke)
Re: Wild apple cider variety (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Not an article but a post requesting information about (Claude Jolicoeur)
Not an article but a post requesting information about cider making (Andre...)
Wild apple cider variety (Andrew Lea)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: stabilizing cider
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 15:31:35 -0600
I've not been able to reliably stabilize (1-2 year shelf life minimum) a
typical 'New World' cider (5-7 ABV, <2 vol CO2) with only sterile filtration
and sulfite that has ANY residual sugar. Pommeau is stable. Full sparkling
(>5 vol CO2) is stable after disgorging.
But for something with residual sugar, I think your only options are
post-bottling pasteurization, sorbate, or drink it quick. And the sorbate
won't work if it's still and under 10% ABV.
I keep meeting people trying to use only filtration and sulfite. But
received wisdom (and my own experience) is that those two alone aren't
stable enough for reliable commercial release. Once it's left the cidery -
lots of awful fates can befall those bottles. It's my opinion that anyone
trying is trusting to luck, rather than a proven technique. A few are
succeeding for some time - but I still think it's luck, rather than science.
But we have also seen several major recalls in the past couple years. [I
also keep running into people who think that pad filtration alone (even to
0.2 um) is sterile, or that filtered product is sterile past the first hose
fitting not steam 'pasteurized' in place, after assembly.]
Charles McGonegal
AeppelTreow Winery & Distillery
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1847, 30 January 2014
From: Tim Scottberg <tscottberg@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 08:07:05 -0600
Hi Bud!
Great question and one we've wondered about as well. We are currently doing
a sterile filtration + sulfite for our semi-sweet.
Tim Scottberg
*Wiley Cider*
*Ripon, WI*
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Subject: New Cider Apple Book
From: jejanicke <jejanicke@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 16:27:31 -0700
Just learned that the new Liz Copas book "Cider Apples, the New Pomona"
is now available at her website. www.lizcopas.com
Ole Joe
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Wild apple cider variety
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 21:14:36 -0500
In Cider Digest #1848, 1 February 2014
>Subject: Wild apple cider variety
>From: ethan hohnke <ethanhohnke@gmail.com>
>It has been in primary for almost 2 months now. Still slowly
>bubbling away. I used wyeast cider yeast. Is there any particular reason
>why its taking so long? My other batches have only taken 7-12 days in
>primary fermentation. Just wondering what could be causing it to go so
>slow. I just checked it today and its at 1.016 so almost there, but not
>quite. Thanks for the help. Cheers!
Honestly, Ethan, I would be more worried for the batches that have
taken 7-12 days!
If now at 1.016, and still bubbling regularely, there certainly isn't
anything to worry about.
If you want a medium cider, you could consider racking it now, and it
would probably stabilize at around 1.012. If you prefer dry, just let it go.
P.S. some of my own ferments from last fall are still over 1.030 of SG...
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Not an article but a post requesting information about
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 21:20:22 -0500
In Cider Digest #1848, 1 February 2014
>Subject: Not an article but a post requesting information about cider making
>From: Bernard.Smith@esc.edu
>I make very small batches of hard cider. Final Gravity is around 1.000 and
>ABV is around 6.5%. I like the flavor and I like the dryness so I am not
>looking for more sweetness but I would like to find some way to increase
>the mouthfeel so that the cider lingers longer inside my mouth and does
>not flow as if it were water. In other words, the mouth feel is as though
>the cider is too thin. Is there anything I could do to increase the
>viscosity of the cider. I have not tried, but don't really want to add
>glycerine which I would view as a kind of failure...
Looks like you are in need of apples with higher tannin content. Most
N.American table apples are notoriously low in tannin. With more
tannin in your blend, brought by true cider apples (bittersweets) or
by some crabs, you can increase the astringency and add a touch of
bitterness to your cider, and this gives structure, mouthfeel and
persistence to a cider.
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Not an article but a post requesting information about cider making
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:52:56 +0000
On 01/02/2014 20:23, Bernard Smith wrote:
> I would like to find some way to increase
> the mouthfeel so that the cider lingers longer inside my mouth and does
> not flow as if it were water. In other words, the mouth feel is as though
> the cider is too thin. Is there anything I could do to increase the
> viscosity of the cider.
In some ways you are on a hiding to nothing. Why? Because the sugar-free
dry extract levels of most ciders is around 15 g/L. Whereas the SFDE of
most grape wines is around 25 g/L, maybe more. Ciders are inherently
thinner than grape wines, because they contain less 'stuff'.
You might look around for some higher tannin varieties of apple, or
maybe macerate the fruit before you press to get a bit more pectin out
into the juice. And if you're using pectic enzymes, then maybe don't. I
think there are some yeast-derived and polysaccharide additives that are
sold into wineries to smooth and to boost mouthfeel. Sugar is good but
then you have the problem of stabilising it against re-fermentation.
Some people think that malo-lactic fermentation increases mouthfeel,
maybe by polysaccharide formation. If you want to get more glycerol
synthesised by yeast then it is theoretically possible by raising the
SO2 level (that is how glycerol for explosives was made in WW1). But
otherwise you don't have too much scope I think.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Wild apple cider variety
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:30:20 +0000
On 01/02/2014 20:23, Ethan Honk wrote:
>
> We have an apple
> farm and have 2 wild trees that popped up ....
> Just wondering what could be causing it (the ferment) to go so
> slow.
I would guess if you have an apple farm that the trees in your main
production area are fertilised. Hence plenty of nitrogen in the juice
hence a fast fermentation. But maybe your wildlings, if self-sown, are
growing on a part of the farm that doesn't get any fertiliser. Hence
less nitrogen hence slower fermentation. Other than that, there are in
any case natural differences in the amount of nitrogen that different
varieties of apple trees take up. Where I come from, three-month ambient
temperature fermentations are quite normal for craft cider makers.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1849
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