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Cider Digest #1898
Subject: Cider Digest #1898, 13 September 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1898 13 September 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Freezing Whole Fruit (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Racking Schedule (Claude Jolicoeur)
Back from Spanish Ciderland (Claude Jolicoeur)
RE: Subject: a note on using frozen juice From: Dick Dunn (Leif)
Seeking Cider Apples (Leif)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Freezing Whole Fruit
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 23:31:18 -0400
In Cider Digest #1897, 9 September 2014,
>Subject: Freezing Whole Fruit
>From: Jim Miller <jmm5278@gmail.com>
>Has anyone here ever
>experimented with freezing whole fruit for short periods of time?
>Does it affect juice quality? Would you want to thaw them in a cooler
>before pressing? Completely thaw or just partially? Would you still need
>to grind them if using a bladder press?
Jim, I often freeze whole apples for many reasons...
It does change things... For example the juice expressed has much
less color and a different viscosity than fresh pressed juice - the
change in texture and viscosity is probably due to pectins being
affected by the freeze-thaw cycle, but this doesn't translate in the
finished cider as the pectins are pretty much destroyed during the
fermentation.
If you press partially thawed, you'll get a concentration effect
(like for ice cider) - it is your choice really. If you don't wish to
have some concentration, press when completely thawed, but don't wait
too long - press as soon as the apples are thawed, otherwise you
might get a big mush in the press.
I don't grind the apples - they become soft enough to be pressed as is.
And as the bladder press, I can't tell as I dont use one. With a
basket press, it works perfectly well.
Claude Jolicoeur
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Racking Schedule
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:54:20 -0400
In Cider Digest #1897, 9 September 2014
>Subject: Racking Schedule
>From: Rachel <rsbolongaro@gmail.com>
>I'm planning on trying a 1000 litre cider batch this fall. One of my
>goals is to try a longer fermentation (last years batches were done in a
>couple of weeks!). I know the cider can pick up a bit of off-flavour if
>its left on its lees for too long. On the other hand I'm worried
>about halting the fermentation if I rack off the yeasts too soon. Can
>anyone recommend a racking schedule that would allow a slow fermentation
>to continue without excessive time on the lees?
Rachel,
I don't think such a thing as an "universal racking schedule" can
exist! Each cider batch is different, and my feeling is that it is
all the art and experience of the cider maker that will make him (or
her) decide on the best moment to do the racking.
Note that it is possible to have some control on the fermentation and
this is a topic that I tried to address in the New Cider Maker's
Handbook - the decision would depend mostly on the fermentation speed...
Another point worth mention, is that in larger tanks, rackings are
not as efficient in slowing a fermentation as in a small carboy.
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Back from Spanish Ciderland
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:50:22 -0400
Back from Spanish Ciderland.
This last Friday, my wife and I came back from Spain where we had a
fantastic tour of some of the major cideries in the Basque Country
and Asturias, the regions of Europe that have the most ancient cider
tradition. This tour was organized by Eduardo Vázquez Coto (Edu)
and Begoña Medio. Some in North America already know Edu, as he was in
Michigan the last couple of years for the GLINTCAP competition. Actually
it was during last GLINTCAP that Edu told me this trip was going to be
organized - my response was immediate: Yes I want to go! And Begoñia is
due to be better known as she will come to the US soon to attend some
important cider events.
We were a delegation of 14 people interested in cider: authors and
bloggers from the US, Canada and UK, representatives from 4 important
cideries of the US and one of us in the business of marketing/importation
of cider. On behalf of the whole group, I want to heartily thank Edu
and Bego for making this tour possible.
The first thing that struck me is the landscape of these regions. The
first word that comes to mind if bumpy. There are hills everywhere and it
seems to be very difficult to find even a small piece of land that would
be flat. When driving, you are always either turning as you go around a
bump, or going up or down, or going through the bump in a tunnel - these
highways must have cost a fortune to build. Hence for orcharding there are
only two choices, slopy or very slopy. This makes it extremely difficult
to use large scale orcharding practices such as seen in America. And in
effect, most orchards we saw were rather small (less than one acre),
mostly of traditional standard trees. I was actually laughing with
Steve Wood one day, pretending that for harvesting one would simply have
to shake the trees and all the apples would roll down the slope to be
picked at the bottom! But it doesn't quite work that way... Just going
through the orchard with a tractor for spraying appears like an almost
impossible task in many locations.
Another striking discovery is the size of some of these cideries. Just
imagine: in one cellar of El Gaitero, there were 93 tanks, each with a
capacity of 56000 liters. A quick calculation tells us this is slightly
more than 5 million liters capacity in just one room - and there
was another (smaller) cellar in the next building... Another quick
calculation told me it would take about 100 years to fill just one of
those tanks with my current cider production. When walking there, one
feels very small indeed. We have also seen crushers with capacities of
the order of 15 tons per hour, huge presses, impressive bottling lines,
and so on.
I can't talk about this trip without mentioning the people we met.
Everywhere we felt like very important visitors. The mayor of Astigarraga
welcomed us when we arrived for our first visit of the tour, and we have
been the object of at least two articles in the newspaper La Nueva España:
http://www.lne.es/gijon/2014/08/26/municipio-recibe-14-especialistas-sidra/16336
52.html
http://www.lne.es/oriente/2014/08/30/ee-uu-quiere-volver-sidra/1635424.html
In addition to Astigarraga, we have been invited and hosted by the towns
of Nava, Villaviciosa, Gijón, and often the owners of large cideries
were there personally to welcome us and invite us for lunch or dinner. I
would have a special word for Señor Castañon and his charming wife with
whom I had a very pleasant conversation with my rudimentary knowledge
of Spanish. Also, Samuel Trabanco, a man with a great sense of humor
who toured us in the most unusual cellar in an ancient mine and invited
us for a truly gastronomic dinner. And talking about food, those of us
who didn't know about "Spanish hours" had sort of a shock... lunch is
normally around 3 PM, sometimes with a pre-lunch snack. And dinner is not
before 10 PM. So bedtime wasn't exactly early... The Spaniards usually
have a siesta during the afternoon, but we didn't... Plus, naturally,
cider was flowing in quantities I had seldom seen before. Ever had choruzo
sausage? For my part I've had more during this trip than during my whole
life. And sheep cheese, oh-la-la! In Astigarraga, I also probably had
the best piece of beef ever.
Cider culture is a very serious thing in Northern Spain... I've heard
something like 40 liters of cider were drank per person every year
in average in Asturias. This is certainly a world record, and even
approaches the French wine drinking number which is around 50 liters per
year. For comparison, in the US, the beer consumption is around 80 liters
annually. In Asturias, they have cider festivals in almost every city,
with pouring competitions and cider judging, music and big fiestas. When
you walk around in any city, you see a sideria on almost every block,
where you can eat and drink cider. But everything is not so idyllic... One
important question that was raised while we discussed between ourselves
is how do they fill all those huge tanks with the apples that we saw
growing in the country. In effect, we saw many multi-million liter
capacity cideries, and the total cider production is said to be around 45
million liters in Asturias. However, there is no way the orchards we saw
can provide the apples necessary to make such a production. I did a bit
of Google search and fell on this interesting article written in 2011
by Miguel Ángel Llana (http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=120256)
where we can read that in Asturias there are 5800 hectares of orchards of
which 86% is traditional planting and 14% is higher density planting. The
total apple production varies from approximately 11000 to 45000 tons
(depending on whether it is a good year or not), almost entirely of
cider varieties, for an average number of 28000 tons. We can note that
this makes a very modest average yield of 4.8 ton per hectare (about 2
tons per acre) and can easily see that this production isn't sufficient
for the above mentioned cider production, and the author concludes that
Asturian cideries need to import about 60% of their apples. One apple
grower with whom I discussed mentioned that the neighbor province of
Galicia is an important provider of apples for Asturias, and apples are
also imported from many other countries of Europe. From what I understood,
in the Basque Country the apple deficit is even more important, and they
import a lot of cider apples from France.
Finally, about the cider, the impression it gave on place was quite
different from what I had been exposed to in North America. Most ciders
we tasted had much less volatile acidity and were fresher, cleaner than
Spanish ciders I had tasted before. These ciders are very natural and
are rarely sulfited (and if so, only very slightly), hence don't keep
as well and should be drank rather young. Also, the traditional way of
pouring the cider, holding the bottle overhead and the glass at thigh
height, and the special very thin glasses probably all contribute to
this pleasing drinking experience. This means also that for those that
import or buy these ciders in America, it is important to keep them cool
and to drink them quickly.
If you like cider and would like to see what is a true cider culture,
have a few lessons of Spanish and a trip to Northern Spain! You won't
regret it.
Claude Jolicoeur
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook
http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/
http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_new_cider_makers_handbook/ =
=20
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Subject: a note on using frozen juice From: Dick Dunn
From: Leif <leif.sundstrom@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:25:19 -0400
Andy,
No. A Sussreserve is a sweet, usually non-fermented juice, that is added
during the final blending process to balance the wine - typically in an
off-dry fashion.
Best,
Leif Sundstrom
Subject: Subject: a note on using frozen juice From: Dick Dunn
From: Andy Crown Brennan <CROWNARTS@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 08:39:07 -0400
Thanks for the research and report.
I usually take a gallon each pressing and freeze it so that I can add it
little by little all winter long to keep a crawling fermentation and fresh
co2 layer. (Though I only had to do this in the warm winter of 2011-12
because it usually happens naturally.) Ultimately it goes totally dry, of
course, but I hope for it to be later in Spring.
My question is: Am I correct in calling this a "Sussreserve," in this
context?
- - --
Aaron Burr Cider
Hudson Valley/ Catskills NY
845.468.5867
Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Cidery/123637988892> , Twitter
<https://twitter.com/TheCidery>, AaronBurrCider.com
------------------------------
Subject: Seeking Cider Apples
From: Leif <leif.sundstrom@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:29:40 -0400
Dear all,
I am looking to acquire as many cider apples I can get my hands on from the
upcoming harvest. Ideally, I would be sourcing large quantities from
single orchards (in bin quantities, if possible), but know that I may have
to piece together smaller quantities from multiple growers.
My preference is for apples grown in NY's Hudson Valley; however, I'm open
to reaching beyond to nearby areas as well. I am open to all available
varieties, but prefer sharps and bitter sharps most of all. Goldern
Russett and Northern Spy did very well for me last year and I'd love to get
those varieties again.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I am willing to pay premium for
great quality fruit as well.
Best,
Leif Sundstrom
Sundstrom Cider
Hudson Valley, NY
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End of Cider Digest #1898
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