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Cider Digest #1862
Subject: Cider Digest #1862, 26 March 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1862 26 March 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1861, 24 March 2014 (Steury and Noel)
Cider flavor profile (Andrew Lea)
GLINTCAP 2014 (Dick Dunn)
Fwd: Wanting to go pro (Stan Sisson)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1861, 24 March 2014
From: Steury and Noel <steurynoel@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:07:32 -0700
Re: long term cider aging
Interesting discussion. Most of my ciders flatten out at 3-4 years, and
some start to decline. However, I have a batch of methode champenoise
(Grimes Golden, initial pH around 3.2' as I recall), still ancien style
(haven't got around to disgorging), 4 years old. It just keeps getting
better.
Tim Steury
Steury Orchards
- --
Steury and Noel
1021 McBride Road
Potlatch, ID 83855
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Subject: Cider flavor profile
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:34:11 +0000
Conner McBride wrote:
> Still, one of the most notable flavors (and aromas)
> is that of bread. I'm assuming that it has to do with the yeast, which is
> a champagne yeast. The cider has been in bottles for about three months
> and is quite clear. Any ideas about how to remedy this fault or where I
> can learn more?
Sounds awfully like 'mouse' to me; but you can't usually smell it, only
taste it. If so, it's not to do with the fermenting yeast but it's from
bacterial action or Brettanomyces. Did you use sufficient SO2?
Here is the relevant passage from my book:
"Mousiness is unmistakable and deeply unpleasant to those who can
recognize it, although individual sensitivity varies widely from person
to person. The flavour is best likened to the smell of a mouse-cage,
although some people think it is closer to bread or freshly-baked
biscuits. Oddly enough the chemicals responsible for these flavours
(acetyl tetrahydropyridines) are all the same. They exist in cider in a
combined (salt) form and are only slowly liberated when the cider is
tasted, depending on the pH of the taster's mouth. Since this varies
from one individual to another, different people respond differently and
in any case the flavour takes several seconds to develop as the free
compound is liberated. You cannot smell mousiness, only taste it, unless
you make the cider alkaline to liberate it into the headspace. This
defect arises from the metabolism of the amino acid lysine by unwanted
species of lactic acid bacteria or by the spoilage yeast Brettanomyces.
It also requires some oxygen for its formation. Preventative measures
therefore include the correct use of sulphur dioxide at all times and
cider storage in the absence of air. Unfortunately there are no ways of
removing mousiness once formed. The cider cannot be blended off and must
be thrown away and all vessels which contained the cider must be
sterilized to eliminate the contaminating micro-organisms."
A happier possibility is that it really is the prized 'biscuity' aroma
that you get from autolysed champagne yeast in sparkling wines, but this
generally takes a year or two to develop.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: GLINTCAP 2014
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 19:11:12 -0600
The results of the Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition
this past weekend are available at:
http://www.greatlakescider.com/glintresults_2014.pdf
I'm not speaking for the competition or the association, just noting that
the results have been posted. Presumably once the GLCPA folks get caught
up, they'll have more info for us. There are some interesting numbers--
like a substantial increase in the number of entries.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Wanting to go pro
From: Stan Sisson <sdsisson62373@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 21:38:16 -0700
Hi all, first post on the Cider Digest.
I am a homebrewer who has made a few batches of cider using commercial
pasteurized juice. I am working with a gentleman who lives in Julian,
California, who wants to start a small commercial cidery, using local
fruit, some of which will come from his property.
Julian is a small town in the mountains near San Diego, CA, which was famed
for it's apples in the past, before demand for "Julian Apple Pie" forced
the pie makers into bringing in truckloads of apples from Washington.
There are still many orchards in the area, but the fruit usually goes to
waste.
I am reading some books on cidermaking, but realize there is much I need to
learn. We will be the first and only cidery in San Diego County, so no one
local to help guide us. We are currently hoping to make about 1,000
gallons this first year.
If someone willing to offer a little advice via e-mail could contact me
offlist at sdsisson62373@gmail.com, we would be most appreciative of your
help.
Cheers, and thanks in advance.
Stan Sisson
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End of Cider Digest #1862
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