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Cider Digest #1749
Subject: Cider Digest #1749, 3 December 2012
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1749 3 December 2012
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Small Cidery Start-up (Nat West)
Keeving (Andrew Lea)
CAMRA Pomona award (Andrew Lea)
Sharp, sweet, bitter? (Richard Reeves)
Sharp Apple ("Rich Anderson")
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Small Cidery Start-up
From: Nat West <natjwest@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 11:04:31 -0800
Hi Corey -
Good timing... I will be presenting on this very topic at the upcoming
CiderCon in Chicago in Feb: http://ciderconference.com/
Specifically, my talk will focus on low-capital input cidermaking. It's not
too hard to start up a small cidery if you have a lot of money. I'll cover
equipment, processes, some business considerations, marketing, etc. Hope to
see you there.
Nat West
Reverend Nat's Hard Cider, Portland Oregon
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Subject: Keeving
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:29:49 +0000
On 28/11/2012 18:12, derek bisset wrote:
>
> Questions: what role does a 24 hour maceration play in helping create
> chapeau brun?
It plays a serious role in allowing pectin from the spaces between the
cell walls (the middle lamellae) to be enzmyically liberated and to
diffuse into the juice. Anyone who has keeved, like Derek, will know
that a high concentration of pectin is needed to form a good firm
chapeau. Maceration overnight helps to provide this. Maceration also
allows lipoxygenase enzymes to act on fatty acids in the fruit (eg
linoleic acid) to develop aldehydes (eg hexenal) which then enter the
aroma production process during yeast fermentation.
> does the percentage of tannic apples play a role?
In itself I don't believe that the tannin has much of a role, except
that oxidised tannin is responsible for colour development. Maceration
can even reduce the intense astringency of some cider apples by tanning
polyphenols onto the pulp. This may be desirable in some cases.
But along with the high tannin go other things. For instance, many of
the high tannin varieties (the bittersweets) are of high pH. This can be
a problem in keeping the fermentation clean, but it also allows natural
PME (pectin methylesterase) activity to proceed faster than in more acid
apples. This is crucial to the formation of the chapeau. In the days
before PME was commercially available (only about 15 years ago) it was
the principal limiting factor in achieving a successful keeve (the
calcium could easily be added and had been for around 100 years).
There is also a good deal of evidence that true cider apples, which may
or may not be tannic, also contain many flavour precursors bound up in
glycosidic form, and probably more than in dessert apples. These are
liberated by natural enzyme systems in the macerated pulp, hence
maceration increases their concentration and eventually contributes to
enhanced flavour profile after fermentation. I am thinking particularly
of octane diol and its flavour transformations which are described here
http://www.cider.org.uk/aroma.html and in the cited references but
that's not the only one.
All in all, maceration of cider apple pulp before keeving can have many
benefits.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: CAMRA Pomona award
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:30:26 +0000
Warwick Billings wrote:
> Just a quick note to echo Dick Dunn and CAMRA, and say thank you to
> Andrew Lea for the generous giving of his time over the years.
Thanks Warwick and Dick for your kind remarks. But as I have already
said elsewhere, the information is mostly out there and it's just a
matter of collating it and passing it on. I'm just a conduit. Mailing
lists like this make it so much easier to disseminate and exchange
information than in the past.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Sharp, sweet, bitter?
From: Richard Reeves <richardr1959@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 16:14:08 -0800
Hi all. Does anyone have experience with the American cider varieties
Harrison, Virginia Crab and Wickson Crab, vis-a-vis where they lie on the
bitter/sweet/sharp scale? I've 5 tress of each arriving in spring and can't
find much info of use on the interwebs. Thanks!
Richard Reeves Lake county, California
------------------------------
Subject: Sharp Apple
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 11:24:12 -0800
I am looking for a bittersharp or sharp apple. Currently I have a number of
Kingston Black's, Brown's and Porters. The Brown's are very biennial(80%)
but do not think a very interesting apple. The Kingston are fine but have
irregular cropping(50%) and find the Porter's a good and consistent cropper.
I would be interested if anyone has tried Crimson King and perhaps some bud
wood to that I might purchase?
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End of Cider Digest #1749
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