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Cider Digest #1733
Subject: Cider Digest #1733, 14 September 2012
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1733 14 September 2012
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Commercial cider tax rates (Mike Faul)
Lifeless cider (Andrew Lea)
Re: CD #1732, 8 -9-2012: Commercial Cider Tax (Peter Mitchell)
Recap - Great Lakes Cider & Perry Festival ("Mike Beck")
When is an apple ripe? (Dick Dunn)
cider canning ("Mike Beck")
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Commercial cider tax rates
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 10:32:44 -0700
Three things.
1. You cannot legally produce a cider/wine IN a brewery. You would need
a dedicated space in which to do so.
2. You would in addition to the TTB basic permit for winery need a
permit to do so in your state.
3. Taxes. Win is taxed at a specific rate for 7-14%ABV and again for
anything with a specific amount of dissolved CO2 in it REGARDLESS of the
ABV. If you produce a cider less than 7% and it has less than the
specified volume of CO2 in solution then you pay the cider rate. You
will need to be able to prove that you have less than the amount in
solution if they ask.
Mike
Red Branch Brewing Company/Red Branch Cider Company
On 9/8/2012 8:25 AM, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: Commercial cider tax rates
> From: Christopher McGarvey <thornsbreak@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:34:22 -0400
>
> We are a small brewpub in North Carolina considering producing a cider to
> sell. We're working through the legal considerations, licensing, and tax
> hurdles to see if this is a viable possibility. We understand we need to
> acquire a winery license in order to produce and sell cider. Our
> brewmaster dug around on the TTB site and said he saw that we would have to
> pay a winemaking tax rate of $2 per gallon, which would essentially
> dissuade us from making the attempt to bother with cider.
>
> However, I remember talking with Chuck from Albemarle in Virginia, and he
> was telling me that cider is considered wine if it contains more than 7%
> ABV, and in that case he has to pay a higher tax rate. Can someone confirm
> for me whether there is an exception to the wine tax rate for ciders below
> 7%, or where I might discover the tax rates that would apply if we were to
> produce a cider at around 6% ABV?
------------------------------
Subject: Lifeless cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 21:19:26 +0100
On 08/09/2012 16:25, Tim wrote:
> How do I test for acid level?
I think any home brew / winemaking shop will sell you an acid titration
test kit. Roughly speaking, anything much less than 0.4% (4 g/L) acid
in cider, expressed as malic acid, could be regarded as rather insipid
and low in acid.
If the result is given in tartaric acid units, multiply by 0.89 to
express as malic; if given as sulphuric, multiply by 1.4.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: CD #1732, 8 -9-2012: Commercial Cider Tax
From: Peter Mitchell <lotic@juno.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 20:52:07 -0400
In reply to: Commercial cider tax rates (Christopher McGarvey)
Mr. McGarvey,
I found the below from the TTB website (it's a pretty good site).
On hard cider [which is a still wine]
derived primarily from apples or apple
concentrate and water, containing no other
fruit product, and containing at least one-half
of 1 percent and less than 7 percent alcohol
by volume, 22.6 cents per wine gallon.
http://www.ttb.gov/rrd/td470.pdf
So, you are correct that the current U.S. federal tax rate does change at
an ABV of 7%.
There are many permutations to the taxation of cider in the U.S.
Tax rates can change with carbonation levels, and volume produced.
Also, you should consider the North Carolina State tax rate.
One may not entirely agree with the above definition of cider.
But, that would raise the age-old question of "What is Cider?".
Peter Mitchell
Headwater Cider
Hawley, MA
------------------------------
Subject: Recap - Great Lakes Cider & Perry Festival
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:39:03 -0400
September 8th - 2012 Noon til Six
The GLCPA Festival was a great success. The crowd came early and the
building was full all day. Of course there was cider represented from all
states except Minnesota in the Great Lakes(Includes Ontario). We also
included ciders from other regions of our country and a great line up of
international cider. We had a great number of representatives from various
cideries in attendance. Richard from Griffin CyderWorks in OH, Charles from
AEppelTreow in WI, Richard & Todd from Prima Cider in IL, Mike & Mark from
Twin Pines in ON. Anthony from Rowan Imports brought in a fantastic line of
Spanish Ciders and we also had the International Cider line from Shelton
Brothers. There was also 3 cider companies represented by the NW Cider
Association. Plus, ciders from NH,MA,VA, VT, & CO. From Michigan there was
representatives from McIntosh Ciders, Northville Cidery, Virtue Cider,
Robinette's Cidery, 45 North, Black Star Farms, Meckley's , Crow's Cider,
Sietsma Orchards and host cidery Uncle John's. The weather was fantastic
the music was thumping and the crowd was a dedicated set of cider fans. As
always, next year's festival will be the first Saturday after Labor Day in
2013.
Thank you to all who sent cider and to the cidery representatives that came
to show off their brand. A special thanks to the volunteers that come to
give their time to pour cider for the crowd.
Pictures and/or video may be posted later!
GLCPA
------------------------------
Subject: When is an apple ripe?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 21:54:45 -0600
A short discussion recently, about judging ripeness, left me pondering
just-for-fun about how many different ways there are to decide whether an
apple is ripe. Here's my quick list; how many more can you add?
1. Does it look ripe? Lots of apples (but by no means all) show off their
ripeness by color. You can watch it happen. But of course you'd be
disappointed at best if, for example, you waited for a White Jersey or a
Bulmer's Norman to turn red.
2. Does it smell ripe? A ripe apple smells like...well...an apple! An
unripe apple doesn't smell like much.
3. Does it come off the tree? Some apples tell you they're ripe by
dropping on their own (like Duchess of Oldenburg). Others need a bit of
encouragement, but generally if a gentle lift brings the apple free, it's
ripe.
4. Seeds: If the seeds are dark brown, that's a good sign that it's
either ripe or very nearly so.
5. Iodine test: If a drop of iodine on the flesh doesn't turn dark,
the starches have converted to sugars and it's ripe. This is somewhat
an extreme test, since many apples that people would call ripe by table
standards don't pass.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: cider canning
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:05:08 -0400
There was some interest off-line for me to make a post about putting cider
in aluminum cans:
History: We have been selling cider in 750ml and draft to the wholesale
trade and our own tasting room sales.
Our endeavor in this began simple enough by applying & recieving a federal
value added production grant through the USDA. For years my
wholesaler/distributors asked for a smaller package (i.e. they wanted
6-packs) I told them that we could do a six pack if they could sell them
for $15+ each. None of them could sell a 6 pack for that money and move a
quantity. I just cannot make the numbers work for a 100% juice-cider to
compete with the large producers in a 6 pack bottle format. However,
aluminum cans are a game changer in that respect. The cost of can & lid is
the same as the cost as for me to buy 1 self adhesive label for 1 bottle.
(about 15cents/per) The only downside to buying cans is the minimums
required for production order. Ball is our can supplier, the smallest order
of can's you can buy is 166,000+ units(per sku). The smallest order for the
lids is around 350,000 units. So you must be very committed to a product if
you go that route. After 10 years in the trade our standard cider is at
that level to hopefully sell that many units within a years' time frame.
(Not even Statewide dist.)
Filling: We purchased a 16oz. standard can Semi-AutoMatic (SAM) canning
line new from Cask Brewing Systems, Canada. The unit is very compact, 30"
wide x 6ft' long and weighs around 500lbs. It requires 20amp-110V electric
service, plus pneumatic connection(compressed air) and Co2 connection. Unit
can be operated with only 2 people. Cans are placed into a feed trough by
hand, cans are manually pushed into the system 3 at a time. Once into the
unit, 3 cans are purged with Co2 and 3 cans are being filled simultaneously.
Once the cans are full they are automatically pushed through the seeming
process. Once seemed, the cans then travel to an accumulation table where
they are manually removed to be assembled into case units. We are
assembling 4x16oz packs - 6 per case. Case trays and 4-pack can holders run
about 50cents per case. Performance: Cider is to be supplied from a
chilled(0 deg.F) brite tank and should have around 1.5 volumes Co2. The
unit is designed for 15 cans a minute. So far we are achieving around 12
cans a minute. There are a few tweeks that I can yet do that may get me
there. If you have more Co2 than recommended you will be going slower.
The art and science in this process is the seeming & the real factor to
success. You must make sure that the proper seem is made prior to run.
This requires measuring many parts of your seem job. Tolerance of less than
2/1000" from specification is all that is tolerated. One or two cans must
be dissected to determine your outer seem and inner seem measurements.
Otherwise, an improper seal may happen.
Marketing: Most growing seasons we should be able market this product to
our Distributors so it reaches retail shelves @ $1-$2 more than 4-pack
industrial ciders in the same format. We feel there is enough built in
competitive advantage to a Cider made in the region to sell for more than
the imported one.
Pro's - the recycling part is great, more than that, a skid of glass is
only moved with a fork truck or pallet jack. 2 people can lift a stack of
8,000 cans. Great reaction in the tasting room. Cracking a cider on the
beach, boat & golf course is fun.
Cons - Cold filling cans means they will sweat, a wipe down or blow off is
necessary prior to case assembly.
Vendor Report - Can mfg., for as big as company Ball is, they made this tiny
gnat cider company feel like our business was important to them.
Filler mfg., Ours was the first unit of its kind, had some delays in mfg. &
had some faulty parts. To their credit, they made sure the unit was
installed and running correctly before I paid for the balance. Includes
respectable warranty period as well.
Hope this helps anyone thinking of going down that path,
Mike Beck
Uncle John's Cider Mill
Uncle John's Fruit House Winery
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End of Cider Digest #1733
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