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Cider Digest #1794
Subject: Cider Digest #1794, 21 July 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1794 21 July 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one (Claude Jolicoeur)
Hewes (VA) Crab (Ben Watson)
Best Pomace Pump (Sweetland Orchard)
Cider Yeasts (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #1793, 19 July 2013 (Scott Smith)
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Subject: Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:32:52 -0400
In Cider Digest #1792, 17 July 2013
>Subject: Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one
>From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:10:28 -0400
>
>I have been growing Hewes crab for a dozen years and I have continued to
>wonder if the historical and modern apples of that name are the same or
>not. Or, perhaps some of the modern ones named Hewes are different than
>others. I obtained my trees from Big Horse Creek Farm. [........
>snip the rest...]
Scott,
The specialist for the Virginia/Hewes crab is Tom Burford. He has
distributed scion wood to many and has participated at its renewed interest.
Since Tom doesn't participate to this forum, I sent him your post and
questions, and I pasted below his reply. I hope this will answer some
of your questions. I understand that here in Canada, the Virginia was
used in the Prairies as a very hardy crab. It is also available in
Canada but I don't know if it is exactly the same or if it is a
seedling. My own fruit ripens by end of September here in Quebec.
*********
Tom Burford's reply to Scott's post:
>Claude, as always, it is good to hear from you and to know that we will have
>books released soon and will be doing joint signing sessions in November.
>
>Here is my commentary on the Virginia (Hewes) Crab and you are welcome to
>broadcast any or all of it:
>
> For many years I have said privately that it was my opinion that the
>Virginia (Hewes) Crab or Hewes Crab as it is more frequently called in
>Virginia, likely is not the original and certainly does not from historic
>documentation reflect the characteristics of 19th century descriptions.
>This is true of other apple varieties, as well, including particularly the
>Canadian Fameuse that from my experience produces above all others, most
>often an image, but not flavor, likeness from seed propagation. Once again
>in my opinion, there is a reason for the conflict with the Hewes.
>
> The oldest known orchard of Hewes was the one at Carter's Grove
>Plantation, a circa 1750 estate, near Williamsburg, Virginia. Twenty or more
>years ago when propagation material was taken from it for use in restoration
>and re-creation of orchards, I estimated that the trees were about 75 years
>old, probably planted in the late 19th or early in the 20th century. It
>would have been a typical orchard for cider making at plantations along the
>Virginia James River and in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Scions from this
>source were used to replant the north cider orchard at Monticello and
>scionwood was widely distributed from the Carter's Grove source.
>
> However, this variety came to have another primary use that account
>for its availability when interest in uncommon varieties developed in the
>1950s. The enormous orchards of Winesaps, Black Twigs, Arkansas Blacks, King
>David and Kinnard's Choice planted on the eastern slopes of the Blue Ridge
>Mountains and in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia had a common trait. They
>were all pollen sterile. The variety of choice for pollination was the
>Virginia (Hewes) Crab that was also popular for cider making until America
>entered World War II. By the 1950s the soft drink industry had supplanted
>the cider market and Hewes was no longer grafted for cider production.
>However, the pollen sterile orchards were still active and pollinators
>needed.
>
> Most of the trees for production of Hewes cider came from Waynesboro
>Nursery in a Virginia town of the same name. Because the taste quality of
>the Hewes was no longer significant, propagation was done from seeds, not
>vegetative material, and reflected variations were distributed. The fruit
>was wasted and Hewes was supplanted in the 1960s and later with fruitless
>flowering crabapples. Other known pollinators like Grimes Golden and Winter
>Banana were no longer commercially popular, as well.
>
> Having known the Hewes for about three quarters of a century, my
>taste buds still expect a more astringent taste from those of my earliest
>recollection. However, the one now in circulation makes both extraordinary
>sweet juice and cider. At the cider making workshops I have done for many
>years at Jefferson's Monticello and elsewhere when the audience is served
>Hewes juice from the press, there is a prolonged silence and then loud
>exclamations of praise. For most it is an introduction to the magic of
>apple juice and is an affirmation that cider will again reign as one of the
>supreme beverages of the world.
>
>Claude, since most of the trees nationally came from the same source, I
>would speculate that variation in ripening time are environmental.
>Elevation particularly affects it.
------------------------------
Subject: Hewes (VA) Crab
From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:41:15 +0000
As Charles McGonegal points out, the apple that we know as Hewes or Virginia
Crab is most likely a seedling of the original apple known to Coxe.
Charles mentions tannins, but Tom Burford also says that, in his 75-year
experience, he remembers VA Crab as once having higher acidity.
Nonetheless, the modern Hewes (VA) Crab is still a very nice (though early)
cider apple. It is one of the few US apples that has the qualities necessary
for great cider. If I were growing it in my orchard, I would try to plant
it with some of the earlier-ripening European bittersweet varieties and
do a blend. Either that, or ferment the Hewes juice separately and use
for later blending.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: Best Pomace Pump
From: Sweetland Orchard <sweetlandorchard@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:10:51 -0500
Hi there everyone
Long time reader, first time poster.
My Pomace pump finally bit the dust. It is an old belt driven Jabsco
and I cannot get it to push out anything despite replacing all the
gaskets for the thing. Does anybody have a good recommendation for a
new pomace pump?
I was thinking of possibly retrofitting my hopper to work with a
Flexible Impeller Pump like the ones from this company
http://www.americanwinepump.com/, has anybody in the USA worked with
them and liked their product? I guess my first question to them is
whether or not FIP pumps are self priming and can handle apple pomace.
Thanks everyone in advance for the suggestions
Kind Regards,
Mike
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Yeasts
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:34:31 +0100
On 19/07/2013 15:20, Missy wrote:
> Regarding Andrew's recommendation of AWRI 350: does this yeast
> consume/reduce much malic acid? Curious how it compares to something
> like Lavlin 71B.
I don't have an exact answer for you but AWRI 350 was our 'workhorse'
cider yeast at the Long Ashton Cider Research Station in the 1970's and
80's, used both for experimental and commercial fermentations. It would
not have been accorded that status if it significantly altered malic
acid levels, either up or down, especially since there was a lot of
detailed work concerning organic acid metabolism in ciders at that time
and it would surely have been noted had that been the case. So I think
the answer is 'no', even though I can't find any detailed data to
support it.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1793, 19 July 2013
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:00:32 -0400
Charles, thanks for that information. It makes a lot of sense to me
that the modern one is a child of the original. The modern one may even
be this Roane's White Crab, according to Coxe it ripens Sept/Oct which
is earlier than Hewes.
Re: tannins in traditional American cider, I agree the level of tannins
was never in the "spitter" category like some of the European varieties,
but it was an important element. Here is a quote from Coxe on what is
the best combination for cider:
...three kinds [of apple], one of which possesses flavour, another
richness, and a third astringency, may possibly be found to improve each
other..
I expect that the modern Hewes would supply the astringency level that
the above quote refers to. Coxe also does not mention a requirement to
have astringent apples, only that it is an important element of the best
ciders; many ciders of the day were made without apples of the modern
Hewes level of astringency and he mentions several common blends (e.g.
Harrison/Campfield) containing no astringent apples.
In my own orchard I have more or less given up on the European cider
apples, they are too hard to grow in my climate, and am still looking
for the ideal collection of crabapple varieties to supply Coxe's
astringent component. The modern Hewes is too early for my cider
making, it watercores/rots too much. I have one promising variety that
came labeled Chestnut which may be mislabeled; it ripens in later
October and has a bit more tannin than Hewes. Wickson is great except
it cracks far too often. I'd be interested in moderately astringent
crab varieties others are finding useful for cider.
Scott
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1794
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