Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1757
Subject: Cider Digest #1757, 13 January 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1757 13 January 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Kingston Black (Andrew Lea)
Diminishing flavor in packaged cider (Andrew Lea)
Cider Conference 2013 Workshops (=?utf-8?Q?Cider=20Conference=202013?=)
RE: Cider Digest #1756, 10 January 2013 (Michael Brady)
location.location,location (Jack O Feil)
Strategies for mitigating replant disease (Richard Reeves)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Kingston Black
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:15:20 +0000
On 10/01/2013 18:10, Eric Bergin wrote:
>
> I believe Kingstons were developed in the south where summers are hotter
> and more humid than northern Oregon.
Don't know where you get that information! Kingston Blacks, if that is
what you truly have, are a British seedling from near Taunton in
Somerset where summers are probably even cooler than they are in
northern Oregon. There is a good deal of anecdotal evidence to show that
they only perform well in British style climates, and are pretty
indifferent elsewhere. Certainly heat does not suit them.
The reason they have such a high reputation in the UK is simply because
they are amongst the few of our cider apples which will make a decent
single variety cider without blending, because of their acid / tannin
balance. Most of the other well known UK cider varieties eg Dabinett are
low acid high tannin bittersweets which need sharper apples blended with
them for a clean fermentation and for a balanced cider. Kingston Black
doesn't. So to some extent its reputation, even on its home turf, is
based on a fallacy. It's still a mighty fine cider apple on its own
'terroir' though!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Diminishing flavor in packaged cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:32:03 +0000
On 26/12/2012 15:54, Nikolai Braun wrote:
>
> It is currently ~10 weeks since bottling. The standard ciders are watery
> and taste like nothing. The bold ciders taste like standard ciders, and
> the 100% crab-apple cider I made has become drinkable, whereas two months
> ago it required a 1:1 dilution with sprite. I don't detect any weird off
> flavors in any batch.
>
> The packaged ciders have not been stabilized (sulfited). I did not purge
> any container with CO2 at any step of the process. The packaged ciders
> have been stored in the basement @ 60F/15C.
>
> What might be the cause of this? I welcome any ideas you can suggest for
> improvements to future batches.
I would suspect malo-lactic bacterial fermentation. It sounds to me as
if your acid levels might have dropped, affecting the flavour adversely.
This could quite possibly happen in unsulphited cider stored at 15C. Do
you have any pH or titratable acid figures on your ciders before and after?
The obvious way to stop this in future is to use SO2 at bottling. This
would also prevent any oxidative flabbiness which might also be
contributory.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Conference 2013 Workshops
From: =?utf-8?Q?Cider=20Conference=202013?= <info@wanderingaengus.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 03:55:03 +0000
Register now for Cider Conference 2013 - the Place for the Cider Industry.
- ------------------------------------------------------------
http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717184&id=757128a87c&e=bb
f65d3fe3
friend on facebook
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a57171
84&id=60354bc923&e=bbf65d3fe3
follow on twitter
https://www.twitter.com/cidercon/
Forward to a Friend
http://us2.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717184&id=757128a8
7c&e=bbf65d3fe3
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717
184&id=db6551759f&e=bbf65d3fe3
** General Schedule:
- ------------------------------------------------------------
* Wednesday, February 6th, 9am to 5pm - Cider Association/Regulatory discussion
* Wednesday, February 6th, 5:30pm to 7:00pm - Pre-conference Mixer
* Thursday, February 7th, 8am to 6pm - Cider Conference and Trade Show
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717
184&id=e6ca5651b5&e=bbf65d3fe3
* Friday, February 8th, 8am to 6pm - Cider Conference and Trade Show
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a57171
84&id=64fd5b056d&e=bbf65d3fe3
* Saturday, February 9th, 11am to 7pm - Cider Summit Chicago
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a57171
84&id=84c47c6223&e=bbf65d3fe3
at Navy Pier. Tickets are available for non-participating companies at
advanced ticket prices with no services fees by contacting Alan Shapiro
(mailto:alanmshapiro@sbs-imports.com) by January 31.
** Cider Conference 2013
Chicago, IL
February 7&8, 2013
Hotel Allegro
- ------------------------------------------------------------
The schedule for Cider Conference is set. Take the time to view both the
schedule listing and timeline
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717
184&id=de9e132134&e=bbf65d3fe3
As with every step of the conference planning, I am asking for your input
to help tailor each workshop and session to meet your needs. Please take
the time to make comments or pose questions for panelists, presenters, and
moderators on the specific workshops and session that most interest you here.
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717
184&id=261b55f321&e=bbf65d3fe3
This information will be used to help prepare for and keep each workshop
and session on the topics you want to discuss.
You can also use this form to volunteer as a panelist if you are are
passionate on a workshops/session's given subject matter and want to
share. As with every Cider Conference, the goal is to have as collaborative
a forum as possible. So please come ready to share your knowledge and
experience whether you are a presenter, panelist, or workshop attendee.
Register for CiderCON Here
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a57171
84&id=12fa39eae2&e=bbf65d3fe3
(Registration ends January 31st)
Book Your Room at Hotel Allegro
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a57171
84&id=406253b0a3&e=bbf65d3fe3
(discount rate expires January 18th)
More details at:
http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a57171
84&id=13dfa01b56&e=bbf65d3fe3
I hope to see you in Chicago.
Cheers,
James Kohn
Conference Organizer
503-361-2400
In its 3rd year, CiderCon 2013 is THE PLACE for the Cider Industry to meet,
share ideas, collaborate, and affect positive changes in cidermaking best
practices, cider fruit production, the cider market and cider regulations.
As the cider market continues to grow rapidly, this is a crucial time to
come together.
Copyright ?? 2013 Wandering Aengus Ciderworks, All rights reserved.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1756, 10 January 2013
From: Michael Brady <hollinshedbrady@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:36:33 +0000
I am surprised that you found Kingston Blacks on offer for sale as cullinary
apples -aargh!, and I just wonder whether the breed was correctly identified.
A few years ago when I was making cider I was fortunate enough to be
offered a number of sacks of KB by a grower 10 miles from me in Devonshire,
who normally sold to a national cidermaker but who was let down because
there was a great glut of apples generally this particular year. I made
a hogshead of pure KB cider, and I can vouch it was the best cider I ever
did taste, and I sold it at double price and there was no shortage of folk
wanting more. Had I blended it, I was informed, I would still have had a
good cider and could have had the premium.
I don't know a lot about the technicalities, but they are certainly REGARDED
around here as biennial, which I think is the only reason a lot more are
not grown. I leave that to the experts.
Mike Brady
> From: cider-request@talisman.com
> To: cider-list@talisman.com
> Subject: Cider Digest #1756, 10 January 2013
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:10:51 -0700
>
...
>
> I have anecdotal feedback for you on Kingston Blacks that I purchased in
> Oregon this fall. ...
>
> I have been interested in trying Kingston Blacks for a hard cider, but they
> are not commonly available in the Oregon/Hood River area. I was picking up
> discounted fruit late in the season when I stumbled across 70 lbs of
> Kingstons at a local fruit stand. They were $1.25/lb retail. No one was
> buying apples by then, so they gave them to me for a lot less.
>
> Though these apples have a reputation for making pretty special cider,
> these ones turned out to be flat, both when eaten raw and pressed.
....
------------------------------
Subject: location.location,location
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:33:36 -0800
We are in the infancy of cider revival. An interesting thought
from digest 1756 is that the region where cider apples are grown may be
as important as it is for wine grapes. For instance, cider apples grown
in New England or England may result in a cider different than cider
produced from the same variety in my location here in warmer and arid
Central Washington. A similarity in desert apples, I have no problem in
saying that we grow the finest Delicious in the world at my location.
Some will disagree especially if consumed after they have been harvested
for several months, it's a different apple except in appearance. The
outstanding trait of Delicious apples are their aromatics and they have
dissipated in those three months after harvest.
When to press cider apples? should they be pressed at harvest or
left to set a couple of weeks the same as using apples picked up from the
ground. With our fresh cider, we set the apples outside to mellow and
allow aromatics and flavors to develop before pressing. That's pretty
much standard procedure for fresh cider.
I believe, for a particular region, the best cider varieties and
techniques can only be determined by trial and error, not based on what
is done elsewhere,one size does not fit all. Jack/Feil
1908 Family Orchard
------------------------------
Subject: Strategies for mitigating replant disease
From: Richard Reeves <richardr1959@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:36:30 -0800
Hi All:
Thanks to those who replied to my query about Harrison/Hewe's/Wickson
(Cider Digest #1749 12/03/2012)
I've gotten myself into a situation (poor planning) where I have to plant
60 mixed bittersweets in soil from which a vineyard was recently removed
("recently" means I'm pulling vines right now). For a variety of reasons
this soil will not be fumigated nor obviously will it have a suitable
fallow period. I have two specific questions about this unfortunate
position I find myself in: They are:
1. Do you think the case for Replant Disease occurring might be overstated,
this being a vineyard not an orchard? and
2. What strategies might be employed to mitigate the damage?
I am a backyard (big backyard) hobby cider maker with some training as a
winemaker but what I know about agriculture would fit in a midget's tin
cup. The trees are on MM-111. As to question #1: My limited research is
raising big red flags about nematodes being the Big Worry,but I'm not
finding anything specific to endemic vineyard nematode populations also
effecting apple rootstocks and so I'm not sure how worried I should be.
As to question #2: This is what I have come up with so far: I intend to use
neem cake in the planting holes at label rate as a mild organic nematicide
and fertilizer, also I will use a root growth enhancer (benificial soil
microbes to promote root growth and plant vigor) directly on the bareroots
at planting time. And although in a perfect world I would remain an organic
grower, I am not wedded to the concept, especially if the long-term health
of the trees will be improved, therefore I am also considering, at least
during the non-fruiting years a nuclear option: systemic broad-spectrum
insecticide (Bayer Movento or it's ilk) which some research (hopefully not
Bayer-funded research) has shown to reduce nematode populations in the soil
by 50%.
I've also seen some materiel on incorporating Brassica seed meal as well as
the growing of (species specific) wheat as being generally beneficial but
not only do i I need to do more research on those, they seem more like
long-term low-level input strategies rather than the Big Guns I may be in
need of in the short term. Thanks in advance for your
thoughts/ideas/advice/experience/strategies/condolences.
Richard Reeves Lake county, California
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1757
*************************
