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Cider Digest #1762
Subject: Cider Digest #1762, 13 February 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1762 13 February 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Refermentation ("David Houseman")
The new "USACM" ()
re: refermentation (hroth521@comcast.net)
RE: Cider Digest #1761, 8 February 2013 ("Julian Temperley")
re: refermentation (James Asbel)
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Subject: Re: Refermentation
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:07:11 -0500
Claude Jolicoeur says:
However, for filling the bottles, you will need a counter pressure filler
head,
otherwise, there will be a lot of foam and the filling of bottles
would be almost impossible without loosing all the sparkle.
There is a reasonable alternative for filling a few bottles (home use) but
not for high volume commercial operations. That is the Blichmann Beer Gun
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-32bYTrb_HU) that works just as well for
cider (and mead) as beer. Key is to cool the beverage in a corny keg, cool
the equipment and bottles, over carbonate the beverage and push with just a
little pressure. The longer beverage line reduces the pressure will
retaining the carbonation and the smooth bore of the beer gun provides less
nucleation sites. So you can fill bottles and still retain carbonation
without counter pressure bottle fillers. I have found this to be far less
messy and easier.
Dave Houseman
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Subject: The new "USACM"
From: <cruise2@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 10:29:07 -0800
I would like to understand the reasons behind limiting the new cider
organization to US producers only.
In this forum, and elsewhere, it is evident that the strengthening interest
in cider, it's production, and enjoyment is taking place in Canada
(everywhere from Quebec, to British Columbia), as well as here in the US.
Everyone involved with this beverage is encountering the same problems and
issues, Governmental issues excluded. I'm sure this was discussed in
Chicago, but wouldn't a "North American ACM" create a stronger, and more
unified organization than one which aggravates our northern friends through
exclusion?
Gene Davis
Davis Products, LLC
Auburn, Wa.
davisproducts@comcast.net
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Subject: re: refermentation
From: hroth521@comcast.net
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 18:57:39 +0000 (UTC)
Hi from Chicago,
I'm just an amateur but I have a data point at least. I had a batch of
cider from 2011 pressing that was screechingly acidic. I did not measure
acidity or pH (early in my experience). The cider was nearly undrinkably
acidic. I had heard that Lalvin 71B-1122 could ferment malic acid so I
took a 5 gallons and added sugar to reach 1.010 and pitched the yeast and
bottled in champagne bottles. By six months in the bottle the flavor was
terrific - really good, some tart, good appley flavors, great mouthfeel.,
very complex and sparkly. I had planned on aging them and opening this
summer but, alas, there is none left....
Howard Roth
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1761, 8 February 2013
From: "Julian Temperley" <apples@ciderbrandy.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 14:13:23 -0000
I write from Somerset , England. We ferment for a second time in
bottles and make what we call 'Bottle Fermented Cider'. A year or two on
the yeast changes the cider vastly . Even though some historians claim
that Bottle Fermented Cider was made in England as far back as the 1600's,
and we taught the French how to make Champagne, not many people make
cider this way in England. This is partly because our Government charges
a penal duty rate.
However Bottle Fermented Cider wins cider competitions against all
comers and is certainly a way small scale cider makers should take a
serious look at. Going up market is I believe the way forward.
Freezing the end of the bottle and removing the yeast is a lot
easier in practice than expected and the freezing ice/ salt mixture is
easy and only needs a freezer to get the ice and a large hammer to break it
up. In an age when every thing is filtered, pasteurized and injected
with carbon dioxide, to produce a naturally made cider has much market
appeal, and it has not done the sparkling wine producers any harm.
Good luck ,Julian Temperley , Burrow Hill Cider.
------------------------------
Subject: re: refermentation
From: James Asbel <jasbel@cox.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:21:38 -0500
Hi Claude, Miguel,
My company, Ciders of Spain, imports Sidra Angelon Brut which is
produced in Nava using a second fermentation in the tank before
bottling. Francisco Ordonez is in charge of production at Sidra Angelon.
I recommend you get in touch with him.
I think this is a succesful approach to creating a naturally sparkling
sidra that I hope will appeal to American cider enthusiasts at lower
cost and greater quantities than methode champenoise affords. Needless
to say I am not a fan of force carbonated ciders, so I think tank
refermentation is a more appropriate means of achieving production
levels that can begin to rival mass market offerings and I would
recommend it to domestic artisanal producers (collectively) to make
inroads into British import and US Pop cider market share.
I also import a methode champenoise cider and I am curious to see if the
pricing I get diverges as the two reach their respective optimal
production levels. Right now they are not that far apart.
James Asbel
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End of Cider Digest #1762
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