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Cider Digest #1758
Subject: Cider Digest #1758, 18 January 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1758 18 January 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Digest 1757 botch fixed (Cider Digest)
Pressed pomace Pelletized? (Jim Lord)
Slow Fermentation In The Garage (Corey Haugen)
apple replant disease (Jack O Feil)
Re: location.location,location (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Digest 1757 botch fixed
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:02:05 -0700 (MST)
Gentle Readers:
I'm sorry about the editing/cleanup mistake in CD 1757--with an article
duplicated and one copy not cleaned up properly. The corrected version
is now in the archive, if you're a collector and want to pick it up.
- -da janitroid
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Subject: Pressed pomace Pelletized?
From: Jim Lord <magnusjager@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:07:10 -0500
Has anyone attempted pelletizing their pamce for fuel after pressing? I
happened to see a listing for a pelletizer in a local classified, and was
wondering how well the left over pomace would work or if anyone had tried
it.
As a start up I was thinking it could cut my heat costs significantly over
the winter months and cut my disposal costs/needs as well. Plus make me a
bit more self sufficient.
Jim Lord
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Subject: Slow Fermentation In The Garage
From: Corey Haugen <corey.haugen87@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:16:54 -0800
Hey Everyone.
So here's a two part question.
I like my cider dry but Ive noticed that once it ferments out I lose all
the apple aroma and flavor that you still get in good dry ciders. I
currently use Lalvin champagne yeast which Im thinking might be one cause
to this problem and Ive also been told that fermenting in much lower
temperatures to will help with this as well.
So question #1: Will the slower fermentation solve this problem along with
switching to a different yeast? (like Wyeast Cider)
Question #2: Im currently in an apartment which makes it difficult to
ferment in lower temps but we are moving to a house and the garage is all
mine. Will I run into any problems fermenting in the garage? Any advice
once I make this transition?
I guess thats 3-4 questions...I'd really appreciate the help!
Thanks,
Corey
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Subject: apple replant disease
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:12:19 -0800
The name, as I remember is specific apple replant disease(SARD)
and as the name implies is specific to apples. Until the EPA set very
restrictive regulations on fumigants SARD was not a problem but now it
is. As a commercial fruit grower, planting other tree fruits on old apple
orchard sites is not a problem and is probably not a problem in planting
apple trees where there have been vineyards.
The ARS at Geneva NY have been developing SARD resistant root
stocks, the two I've heard of are also dwarfing at 45% of seedling trees.
They are G-890 and G-30. One problem is finding nurseries who propagate
trees on G-30. G-30 is very brittle and many trees are lost to breakage
at the bud union so nurseries are reluctant to use G-30. I don't know
anything bout G-890. My soil has been planted in apples for over a
hundred years, so with the loss of fumagants I plant G-30 rootstocks and
then use a long splice graft a foot or so up from the ground to the
variety I want, so far so good. Dr. Jim Cummins (retired) worked on
developing the G-30 and sells that rootstock at along with trees and
other root stocks at his nursery in New York.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: location.location,location
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:06:47 -0700
Jack Feil observes:
>...An interesting thought
> from digest 1756 is that the region where cider apples are grown may be
> as important as it is for wine grapes. For instance, cider apples grown
> in New England or England may result in a cider different than cider
> produced from the same variety in my location here in warmer and arid
> Central Washington...
Sure, that makes sense and experiments bear it out.
Couple examples from up near UW: Some years back Drew Zimmerman reported
that Brown Snout did very well for him, but came out as a mild bittersharp
where it "should" be a bittersweet. Also, Jonagold had done well up there
as a substantial part of a blend, whereas in other locations it didn't have
any useful character for cider. (Reports from other widely spread
locations have shown spotty very-god results from Jonagold.)
Similarly, here, I find that Somerset Redstreak never comes through to the
bittersweet that it's supposed to be; acidity remains high enough to put
it in the bittersharp category even when all the ripeness indicators say
it's fully ripe.
So for an area with little-or-no cidermaking history, you try whatever
might make sense and take very careful notes. (I've done the first half
of that!)
> When to press cider apples? should they be pressed at harvest or
> left to set a couple of weeks the same as using apples picked up from the
> ground...
Also depends on your climate and weather. Our altitude gives us a short
nominal growing season, yet we can have rather hot weather well into fall,
so outside storage isn't a plan.
But whatever the case, let the apples ripen as much as practical--there's
no benefit to underripe fruit for cider.
> I believe, for a particular region, the best cider varieties and
> techniques can only be determined by trial and error, not based on what
> is done elsewhere,one size does not fit all.
Yes, but don't take this to the extreme that some folks have done, by
saying "Forget the English varieties!" Take them as possibilities and
see which ones work. Successes elsewhere give you some strong hints.
As Jack said at the start of his note, we're "in the infancy of cider
revival" (even though a few folks have been at it for decades). We do
need a lot of experimentation.
Unfortunately, cider is becoming popular/fashionable too fast! Some large
producers are planting big orchards without knowing the suitability of the
varieties they've chosen. They're in for diappointments. And that's
really twice-bad because they're also dragging down the general supply of
budwood and especially rootstock that could be put to better use by the
cidermakers/growers who have taken the time to figure out what works in
their locations/climates/terroirs.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1758
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