Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1785
Subject: Cider Digest #1785, 15 June 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1785 15 June 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Irradiation of cider (Andrew Lea)
Re: question for cider digest - Thanks!!!! (Claude Jolicoeur)
Using unpasteurized juice ("Charles McGonegal")
cider digest reply (Bear Swamp Orchard)
Rhode Island Greening ("Mike Beck")
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Irradiation of cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:33:18 +0100
On 10/06/2013 15:54, Michael Brady wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> I've often wondered if irradiation is an effective and practical way of
> controlling infection in both finished cider and, where new yeast is to
> be introduced, the original juice. Have you any knowledge or experience
> of this, please?
I have no knowledge of this. High energy ionising radiation (known as
irradiation in the EU) can be used to extend the shelf-life of fresh
fruit eg strawberries, principally by destroying moulds. I have no idea
the levels required to kill yeasts in apple juice or sweetened cider.
Since your enquiry is from the UK, I should just mention that food
irradiation is illegal in the EU unless (a) it is carried out in a
licensed facility (b) it is only carried out on a specified range of
foods of which apple juice / cider is not one and (c) it is declared on
the label. So it's pretty much a non-starter in the UK I'd say.
The word 'irradiation' is sometimes also applied (outside the EU) to
refer to non-ionising UV-sterilisation. This is widely used on fresh
apple juice in the US and Canada as an alternative to (thermal)
pasteurisation to destroy pathogens. However, it has virtually no effect
on fermenting yeasts at the levels commonly used. Others on this list
who use it routinely will be able to comment with more authority than I can.
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: question for cider digest - Thanks!!!!
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:01:59 -0400
In Cider Digest #1784, 10 June 2013
>Subject: question for cider digest - Thanks!!!!
>From: Hunter Wade <hunterhwade@gmail.com>
>Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:36:36 -0700
>
>Also, during the recent thread about Nitrogen in Juice/Nitrogen application
>in US/UK orchards, Claude wrote of how through well timed rackings, he was
>able to stabilize his cider with natural R.S.
Hunter,
From my understanding, it is the alcohol that kills those pathogens,
hence common wisdom to have at least about 4.5% ABV in the cider,
which is usually considered sufficient to insure its good keeping properties.
So, whatever process you use, as long as there is enough alcohol,
there should be no problem from those.
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Using unpasteurized juice
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 12:03:02 -0500
Hunter,
>From the papers I've seen, a few days of fermentation should clear
pathogens. I don't believe complete fermentation is needed. And a broader
range of pathogens has been tested, and also fail to survive ferment. Part
of this is the long contact time. If red wine will kill pathogens in 15
minutes contact (short enough to considered for use as a surface sanitizer),
then several months later you've accumulated a lot of logs of kill.
US regs don't allow back addition of -untreated- -apple- juice without a
5log treatment after the addition. That's not in the TTB regs, it's in the
FDA regs and is specific for apples. I don't have the CFR reference handy,
but could dig it out. I only know because my State inspector knows it.
Charles McGonegal
AeppelTreow Winery & Distillery
Previously, on the Cider Digest...
1. Does the fermentation process only destroy pathogens such as E-coli and
Salmonella when taken to complete dryness?
2. Could a cider fermented from unpasteurized juice and stabilized before
dryness by using a method such as Claude's potentially still contain those
pathogens?
3. If you ferment cider to dryness - add back fresh unpasteurized juice
for R.S. - sterile filter and bottle. Could that cider potentially pose a
health risk for Salmonella, E-coli etc... ? Or does a .45 micron
Sterile Filtration safely remove them? Or should the add back juice be
pasteurized if using Sterile Filtration for stabilization instead of in
bottle pasteurization?
------------------------------
Subject: cider digest reply
From: Bear Swamp Orchard <apples@bearswamporchard.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:03:33 -0400
Subject: rhode island greening for hard cider
From: Hunter Wade <hunterhwade@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:43:23 -0700
We are looking at different varieties to plant next year on the farm and
Rhode Island Greening is one of them. We sell for packing and also make
hard cider. I have had it as an eating apple - and loved the tartness and
acidity but have never made cider from them.
Have any of you made cider from Rhode Island Greening or drank cider made
from Rhode Island Greening? What are your thoughts on using it in cider
production?
Cheers!
Hunter Wade
Devoto Orchards <http://www.devotogardens.com/>
Sebastopol, California
Hi Hunter
We have used RI Greenings for cider but have found that the acidity that
makes it a great eating and keeping apple, also really comes through in
the finished cider. I find that the aromatics and sugar levels in ours
are great, but I keep the volume of them in any blend pretty low to
avoid making it too sharp. Unfortunately I haven't taken acid readings
in years and can't remember what they were, but the sugars on the last
ones we pressed were at a S.G. of 1.056. A great all around apple here
and pretty easy to manage. We have some old standards (150yrs+!), and
some on EMLA 26 and M111, and would recommend them for for what it
sounds like you are doing.
Good luck,
Steve Gougeon
Bear Swamp Orchard
Ashfield, MA
email - apples@bearswamporchard.com
www.bearswamporchard.com
------------------------------
Subject: Rhode Island Greening
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:43:42 -0400
Hunter,
RI Greenings are big part of a lot of our blends. They blend well with
bittersweets to give them the acid they need for healthy fermentations. We
feel they lend a citrus fruit note and help give a cider a bit of a razor
edge. Greening's contribute a slight floral aroma as well. The best part
is there is at least a half million pounds of them available here. Not a
high yielder at the press.
If you need any from the 2013 crop let us know and we can get them your way.
Regards,
Mike Beck
Uncle John's
St. John's, MI
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1785
*************************
