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Cider Digest #1730
Subject: Cider Digest #1730, 28 August 2012
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1730 28 August 2012
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Lifeless Cider (homebrewtim@me.com)
cider varietals in California (Vincent Sterne)
Re: Cider Digest #1729, 27 August 2012 (Irvine)
RE: Cider Digest #1729, 27 August 2012 ("Rich Anderson")
Probably not pectin (Andrew Lea)
desert apple for cider (Jack O Feil)
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Subject: Lifeless Cider
From: homebrewtim@me.com
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:40:45 -0500
Hello all,
I live in S. IL and ferment cider at home. Last years batch from our local
orchard has cleared, fermented from 1.050 to 0.994. It was fermented with
White Labs WLP 775. I pitched the yeast on Sep 22, 2011. My problem this
year is the cider, although clean, is lifeless. Last years batch with
the same yeast and juice from the same orchard was dry, tart and very tasty.
Does anyone have any suggestions regarding how to liven up my batch?
I have Acid Blend and Wine Tannin handy along with oak chips, oak cubes,
lactic acid and phosphoric acid.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Timmy
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Subject: cider varietals in California
From: Vincent Sterne <incider@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 09:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
We are planning to plant 5 acres of cider varietals this spring in Apple
Hill, California.Who might we talk to about what varietals and rootstock
would be most suited for this area,Thanks in advance for your help.
Vincent Sterne
Two Rivers Cider Company
4311 Attawa Ave. Suite 103
Sacramento, CA 95822
www.tworiverscider.com
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1729, 27 August 2012
From: Irvine <sketchpub@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:49:51 -0400 (EDT)
Surface Yeast
I chalk up the white floating layer to surface yeasts, often referred to as
flor yeast. I find it in wine, in barrels, that are not properly topped up.
It seems more common in cider and I assume that that is because there is
less alcohol.
It is hard to eradicate and the best solution is to rack the cider off
to smaller containers and fill them up. I usually add whatever molecular
SO2 my tests indicate I should add. (I also keep a spray bottle of SO2,
high strength to spray on the top of the cider after racking).
I have found that it often doesn't seem to affect the flavor if you rack
it early, but I have never just let it sit very long to find out otherwise.
It does impact the flavor, ever so slightly, by increasing the acidity in
the cider, which I assume is volatile acidity.
It is so common; there must be studies that have been done on it.
Or we should initiate one.
Ron Irvine
Vashon Winery
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1729, 27 August 2012
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:18:46 -0700
Pectin haze is a pervasive cloudy cider, you can test for it using a
solution of rubbing alcohol and cider to clot it, see Andrew Lea's excellent
page(s) on testing and correcting cider issues. It can be removed using a
pectinase which contrary to some will work with fermented juice. As for the
waxy film, I think most cider makers experience it a some point. If it is
not growing a like film yeast it will not likely be a serious problem. The
best preventive is keep your containers full to minimize the head space. If
you not planning to drink the cider in the next six months you might try
floating it off by add more cider as an alternative to racking and
filtering.
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Subject: Probably not pectin
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:25:23 +0100
On 27/08/2012 16:28, Craig Teerlink wrote:
> I have a very waxy film developing on the surface of the
> must in all of my carboys from last season's blend and I am having a hard
> time diagnosing the source of it. So far there is no change to the flavor,
> fermentation is well past, and it is definitely not acetobacter. I would
> be delighted if I could dismiss the film as something as innocuous as
> excessive pectin.
This sounds to me much more like a film yeast than pectin. More detail
here http://www.cider.org.uk/part5.htm under the heading "Fermentation
and storage problems". The good news is that it's quite curable /
containable if it hasn't gone too far.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: desert apple for cider
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:35:58 -0700
A lot of at home cider makers,probably professionals as well are using
cull desert apples from the packing houses and farmers, they are
available and cheap. My question is that using cull desert apples as a
base result in a finished product made with heaver bodied but hard to
come by apples like Newtowns, Spitzenbergs, Wickson Crabs, etc,etc?
Personally I use a combination of apples and for tannin, I use grape
tannin, tastes good to me but the body may not be optimal. Any thoughts
on using desert culls for the base? My question is, is it worth while to
grow apples especially for the base?
Jack Feil/ Feil 1908 Family Orchard
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End of Cider Digest #1730
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