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Cider Digest #1784
Subject: Cider Digest #1784, 10 June 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1784 10 June 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: Cider Digest #1783, 6 June 2013 (Michael Brady)
Success With Kegs (Brian Palmer)
Define Body ("Rich Anderson")
question for cider digest - Thanks!!!! (Hunter Wade)
rhode island greening for hard cider (Hunter Wade)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1783, 6 June 2013
From: Michael Brady <hollinshedbrady@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 10:05:08 +0000
Andrew,
I've often wondered if irradiation is an effective and practical way of
controlling infection in both finished cider and, where new yeast is to
be introduced, the original juice. Have you any knowledge or experience
of this, please?
Mike Brady,
Devonshire.
> Subject: Pasteurized versus Unpasteurized
> From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
> Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:24:27 +0100
>
> On 04/06/2013 16:11, Corey Haugen wrote:
> >
> > Assuming this cider [fresh juice] is unpasteurized, is it important for
> > me to pasteurize it? If so, do I do it before or after fermentation?
>
> I'm sure you will get lots of replies to this! No it is neither
> necessary nor desirable to pasteurise fresh juice before fermenting it
> into cider. (Think of cider making as wine making, not brewing. Wine
> makers do not pasteurise their juice.)
>
> There are adverse microbes (those that might give off-flavours) in apple
> juice but they are generally taken care of by adding the correct dose of
> sulphur dioxide (SO2) before pitching the yeast. This is well-covered in
> wine and cider literature (eg my website) and the dose depends on the
> pH. If the pH is low (<3.5) you might choose to do without SO2. Some
> people do.
>
> If you are worried about pathogens from the apple juice, be assured that
> Salmonella and E-coli are destroyed by the process of fermentation.
>
> Cider is sometimes pasteurised after fermentation, at the point of
> packaging, if sugar has been added for sweetening. This is to prevent
> the possibility of stray yeasts causing re-fermentation and exploding
> bottles. Batch pasteurisation is well suited to the amateur. An
> alternative method of eliminating yeasts (but not so practical on a
> small scale) is cold sterile filtration and bottling.
>
> Andrew Lea
> nr Oxford UK
> www.cider.org.uk
...
------------------------------
Subject: Success With Kegs
From: Brian Palmer <bmp22@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 15:08:43 -0400
[Janitor's note: The Subject of this posting appeared in the last CD, but
the article went missing! My fault somehow. Apologies to Brian.]
Hello. I'm working on a business plan for a new cidery right now, and
I'm debating distribution in kegs versus bottles. I realize that bottles
are the overwhelming favorites, but I'd like to know whether kegging is
a viable option. Has anyone out there had much success convincing pubs to
dedicate a tap to a local cider? Or are they more inclined to buy bottles,
which can be tossed in the fridge in small numbers?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Brian
------------------------------
Subject: Define Body
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 11:40:05 -0700
Well, received the judging notes from GLINT, interesting reading and
readable too. One recurring judging note is that our ciders lack body(also
not English enough). Please note that in no way is this to discredit GLINT
judges or judging, as a group they are sincere, professional and
knowledgeable.
So I am curious how do you define body? I think of it a having a interesting
flavor profile, as well as mouth feel.
While I might attribute some of this to having back to back years of cool
summers, the apples are ripe perhaps just(they are mellowed). We use a mix
of bittersharps, mostly Kingston's one year, Brown's the next, blended
primarily with Dabinett, Yarlington and Brown Snout and a odd bins like
Harry Masters and other bittersweets. One thing that occurs to me would be
to try a different yeast, I have never really tried to evaluate yeast
selection and exclusively use EC118, but at one time would alternate batches
with EC118 and 71B. I saw a recent post from Dr. Lea suggesting AWRI 350. An
alternative would be to plant some different varieties, at one time I had a
number of what were identified as Foxwelps but I found them a very large,
bland sharp that tended to drop early and not keep well and top grafted them
with a Golden Russet. Anyway, this old cider maker still wants to be in the
game and make a better cider, also does not like bronze medals:)
------------------------------
Subject: question for cider digest - Thanks!!!!
From: Hunter Wade <hunterhwade@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:36:36 -0700
In the unpasteurized vs. pasteurized juice thread, Andrew wrote that:
"If you are worried about pathogens from the apple juice, be assured that
Salmonella and E-coli are destroyed by the process of fermentation."
Also, during the recent thread about Nitrogen in Juice/Nitrogen application
in US/UK orchards, Claude wrote of how through well timed rackings, he was
able to stabilize his cider with natural R.S.
This brought to mind a few questions as to the destruction or removal of
pathogens such as Salmonella/E-coli through various cider making processes:
1. Does the fermentation process only destroy pathogens such as E-coli and
Salmonella when taken to complete dryness?
2. Could a cider fermented from unpasteurized juice and stabilized before
dryness by using a method such as Claude's potentially still contain those
pathogens?
3. If you ferment cider to dryness - add back fresh unpasteurized juice
for R.S. - sterile filter and bottle. Could that cider potentially pose a
health risk for Salmonella, E-coli etc... ? Or does a .45 micron
Sterile Filtration safely remove them? Or should the add back juice be
pasteurized if using Sterile Filtration for stabilization instead of in
bottle pasteurization?
Cheers!
Hunter Wade
Devoto Orchards <http://www.devotogardens.com/>
Sebastopol, CA
------------------------------
Subject: rhode island greening for hard cider
From: Hunter Wade <hunterhwade@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:43:23 -0700
We are looking at different varieties to plant next year on the farm and
Rhode Island Greening is one of them. We sell for packing and also make
hard cider. I have had it as an eating apple - and loved the tartness and
acidity but have never made cider from them.
Have any of you made cider from Rhode Island Greening or drank cider made
from Rhode Island Greening? What are your thoughts on using it in cider
production?
Cheers!
Hunter Wade
Devoto Orchards <http://www.devotogardens.com/>
Sebastopol, California
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End of Cider Digest #1784
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