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Cider Digest #1795
Subject: Cider Digest #1795, 23 July 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1795 23 July 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1793, 19 July 2013 (Steury and Noel)
AWRI 350 Yeast acid reduction (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #1794, 21 July 2013 (Tim Bray)
Re: Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one (Scott Smith)
Hewes (Jack O Feil)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1793, 19 July 2013
From: Steury and Noel <steurynoel@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:09:45 -0700
Hewes again
Charles McGonegal, your comment from Tom Burford about the modern
Hewes being low -tannin is interesting. Next to Tardive de
Forestiere, the Hewes is probably the most tannic apple in our
orchard. In fact, I have to blend it. It's far too tannic to do a
straight Hewes. I'd be interested in the various lines of Hewes
available throughout the country. As I recalll, I got our Hewes from
Cummins Nursery. Jim Cummins, if you're there, any insight?
Tim Steury
Steury Orchards
- --
Steury and Noel
1021 McBride Road
Potlatch, ID 83855
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Subject: AWRI 350 Yeast acid reduction
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 20:15:52 +0100
On 21/07/2013 16:51, Andrew Lea wrote:
>
>> Regarding Andrew's recommendation of AWRI 350: does this yeast
>> consume/reduce much malic acid?
> So I think
> the answer is 'no', even though I can't find any detailed data to
> support it.
I have now found a paper from Bryce Rankine at AWRI in 1966 (JSFA 17,
312-316) where a number of yeasts in their culture collection were
compared for malic acid reduction during fermentation of various grape
juices. AWRI 350 was confirmed as virtually the lowest of those tested
(as low as 5% reduction, with a mean of 11%), whereas several of the
others showed reductions up to 22-26%. Unfortunately because only the
AWRI strain numbers are given, and the work is nearly 50 years old, it
is impossible to be sure which other strains might be similar to those
which are now commercially available.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1794, 21 July 2013
From: Tim Bray <tbray@wildblue.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:36:30 -0700
Scott Smith is looking for "moderately astringent crab varieties others
are finding useful for cider."
In my small orchard, King David exactly fits that description, except
it's not a crab. It is moderately astringent in most years, what I
think would be called "soft" tannin, though in some years the
astringency can be quite pronounced. It is vigorous and productive
year-on-year (not biennial) and scab-tolerant. The wood is somewhat
brittle and I have been losing branches from overloading, a result of
bad pruning decisions made several years ago. Be careful not to let it
get too leggy. It blooms profusely and sets lots of fruit.
KD is primarily important to me for its flavor and aroma contributions -
both survive fermentation to a far greater degree than any other apple I
grow (about 60 varieties). Straight KD ciders actually have too much
fruit character sometimes - they can taste cloying, even when dry - so I
blend them at 25% to 50% with sweets or bittersweets. It also
contributes a lot of color.
Tannin production might be affected by climate and soil
characteristics. My orchard is on well-drained, very lean sandy loam,
in a cool-summer climate on the foggy Mendocino coast. Inland, where the
summer days are hotter but it still generally cools off at night, it
still performs well and has similar character. I don't know how it
would do in hot-summer climates with warm nights.
I planted some Hewes Virginia Crab a few years ago, but seldom get
enough production to bother with, despite the tree vigor. So I am
reworking those trees, some to KD and some to Red-Vein Crab. RVC (from
Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery, since sold and renamed Trees of Antiquity)
produces huge yields of dark red fruit with red flesh. The juice is
ruby-red, richly flavored, very tannic and acidic; almost like
cranberry. A little of that really perks up a cider, if you have some
low-acid juice to blend with.
Hope that helps,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:19:43 -0400
Tom/Claude, thanks much for the helpful information. The seedling
theory fits very well with the data.
I wonder if the original Hewes is hiding out there somewhere..
Scott
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Subject: Hewes
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:20:28 -0700
On Hewes crab, I purchased two trees from a seed catalog; the
apples from those trees fit the description of those posted in the digest
and probably came from the same single source as all of today's Hewes.
Given that the Hewes of today are somewhat different than the originals,
yet were derived from a seed of an original and while we can't get tissue
from the original, its genes are probably still in the seeds of today's
Hewes. Wouldn't it be possible to grow seedlings from seeds of today's
Hewes and out of hundreds, maybe thousands of seedlings, come up with one
more representative of the original? Not being a geneticist, I assume
this would only work if Hewes is self-fertile and the blossoms are bagged
or otherwise isolated to prevent contamination from another pollen
source. Jack
Feil
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End of Cider Digest #1795
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