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Cider Digest #1792
Subject: Cider Digest #1792, 17 July 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1792 17 July 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1791, 14 July 2013 (Jack O Feil)
Re: Cider Digest #1791, 14 July 2013 (Jim Cummins)
Re: Cider Digest #1791, 14 July 2013 (Jim Cummins)
Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one (Scott Smith)
Cider yeasts (Andrew Lea)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1791, 14 July 2013
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 20:55:45 -0700
Hi Dick, if you haven't already, contact Dr. Jim Cummins at Cummins
Nursery in New York. Jim worked developing rootstocks for the USDA-ARS in
Geneva, He is retired but I understand he developed the G-30 rootstock.
I've got a lot of good rootstock info from him. rootstocks@gmail.com
Jack Feil
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1791, 14 July 2013
From: Jim Cummins <rootstocks@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:27:29 -0400
Subj: Geneva 935
Dick, I'm not aware of any trials involving cider varieties. A number
of trials have used dessert varieties to compare G.935 with other
rootstocks. It almost always comes in quite close to the vigor of
Malling 26; once, at least, closer to the most vigorous M.9 clones.
Certainly G.935 is appropriate for high density plantings. Whether to
go for central leader depends on the operator. I would use a tall
spindle, spacing determined by variety, soil, and a potful of other
variables. The very early, heavy production will make it much more
efficient than M.26 and should keep tree vigor down.
//Jim Cummins
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1791, 14 July 2013
From: Jim Cummins <rootstocks@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:28:20 -0400
Addendum: forgot to attach. This is quote from a Terence Robinson report.
//Jim
G.935 is similar in size to M.26 but is more productive. It induces
wide branch angles, is highly resistant to fire blight and
Phytophthora, and appears to have some tolerance of apple replant
disease. It also appears to be very winter hardy, but its not
resistant to woolly apple aphid. Fruit size has been slightly smaller
than M.9.
------------------------------
Subject: Modern Hewes Crab vs historical one
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:10:28 -0400
I have been growing Hewes crab for a dozen years and I have continued to
wonder if the historical and modern apples of that name are the same or
not. Or, perhaps some of the modern ones named Hewes are different than
others. I obtained my trees from Big Horse Creek Farm. They look
identical to this picture from Century Farm Orchards:
http://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/images/hewes5.jpg
Below are various historical descriptions and some other pictures. The
main things that make me wonder if there is some difference include:
Mine ripen in mid-Sept, not October (there is much more in Coxe on Hewes
than the description in the apple list below, chapter 16 is wholly on
Hewes and cider making and he mentions October ripening). Coxe is in NJ
and I am in MD and we should not be too far off, although there is the
historical change in the weather to consider.
Mine are shiny once the bloom is rubbed off, and the descriptions below
both state dull. Shiny and dull are worlds apart.
There are some other things that seem different (in particular the
historical pictures and descriptions more emphasize red color) but I
don't see anything as concrete as the above two.
I have only had an experimental tree or two of my modern one and have
never made cider from it, but it is a highly flavorful apple which would
be excellent for cider. The only problem is it is early for my
cidermaking, and it also would seem too early historically and that is
what got me investigating this question (Coxe makes clear that the later
apples are the cider apples, its too hot earlier).
I'd be interested if others growing Hewes found that they looked like
the Century Farms picture or not, whether it is shiny once the bloom is
rubbed off, and when it ripens. Plus any other insights into this
question. Note that there is a closely related variety, Roane's White
Crab, mentioned by Downing below, which is less red skinned (there is
also a historical watercolor of it below). Given that Hewes is hundreds
of years old there are likely many versions. I do expect the modern one
is one of those versions.
Scott
Coxe, "A View of the Cultivation of Fruit Trees":
HEWES'S VIRGINIA CRAB.
This apple is of very small size; the form nearly
round, the stem long and thin, the skin a dull red, mix-
ed with faint streaks of greenish yellow, and numerous
small white spots. The juice, although acid and aus-
tere to the taste when mixed with the flesh, becomes
sweet and highly flavoured when expressed from the
pulp in the perfect maturity of the fruit: the flesh is
singularly fibrous and astringent; in pressing, it sepa-
rates from the liquor, which runs through the finest flan-
nel like spring water; in this state it may be trans-
ported a great distance to the cellar of the dealer, be-
fore the commencement of the fermentation it is not
practicable to express the juice sufficiently from the
pomace, in one operation of the press ; it is therefore
usually returned to the vat, and serves to make water
cider of a very superiour quality my own practice is,
to mix the crab pomace in the vat with that of strong
rich cider apples, which makes an improved liquor, by
being strained through and absorbing much of the fine
liquor of the crab. The tree is of small size, the
leaves, though small, are of luxuriant growth -the
wood hard and tough, never breaking with the load
of fruit usually produced every second year such is
the hardiness of this fruit, that in its bearing year it re-
sists the frosts which frequently cut off our other apples:
the origin of this apple is satisfactorily traced to Vir-
ginia, where trees nearly one hundred years old, are
now standing in the orchard of a respectable inhabi-
tant of that State, from whom I obtained the informa-
tion. The size of the fruit may be increased by liberal
manuring and good cultivation I have hauled from
one to three and four loads of meadow or river mud
round many hundreds of my trees, with the best effect,
in the increase both of the size and quantity of the
fruit.
Downing, "The Fruits and Fruit Trees of America":
HEWE'S VIRGINIA CRAB.
The Virginia Crab makes a very high-flavored dry cider, which, by
connoisseurs, is thought unsurpassed in flavor by any other, and retains
its soundness a long time. It is a prodigious bearer, and the tree is
very hardy, though of small size.
Fruit quite small, about an inch and a half in diameter, nearly round.
Skin dull red, dotted with white specks, and obscurely streaked with
greenish yellow. Stalk long and slender. Flesh fibrous, with an acid,
rough, and astringent flavor, and, when ground, runs clear and limpid
from the press, and ferments very slowly. The Virginia Crab is often
mixed with rich pulpy apples, to which it imparts a good deal of its
fine
quality.
The Roane's White Crab is a sub-variety of the foregoing, about the
same size, with a yellow skin. It makes a rich, strong, bright liquor,
and keeps throughout the summer, in a well-bunged cask, perfectly
sweet.
Historical watercolors:
http://usdawatercolors.nal.usda.gov/catalog/POM00003580
http://specialcollections.nal.usda.gov/imagegallery/rare-book-image-gallery-50
Here is a modern Trees of Antiquity picture:
http://www.treesofantiquity.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&product
s_id=184
------------------------------
Subject: Cider yeasts
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:12:53 +0100
On 15/07/2013 04:19, Tod wrote:
> Here's the data on the new Lalvin QA23 yeast, which
> sounds to me as if it would be worth trying on cider.
> http://www.lallemandwine.com/catalog/products/view/37
When I was in Australia last year I met a winemaker turned cidermaker
who was using QA23. He was very happy with it. His ciders were made from
ex pack house table fruit - Pink Lady, Fuji, Granny Smith etc - so they
were in a light fruity style. He was also chilling the fermentation down
to 4C before it was finished to conserve residual sugar before
cross-flow ultrafiltration, and the yeast responded well to that.
I would also put in a plea for AWRI350 which is now commercially
available in Europe, Australia and the US. See eg
http://www.gwkent.com/media/pdf/product/2220/maurivin_AWRI_350.pdf This
was the yeast we used at the UK Long Ashton cider research station when
I worked there in the 1970's, both for experimental and commercial
fermentations. It contributes positively to cider aroma, is a low H2S
producer and has low nutrient requirements. Although I typically use
wild yeast for my ciders, I made a small test batch with AWRI350 last
season and was encouraged enough that I plan to investigate it some more
this year. [IMHO, much more interesting than the neutral 'champagne
yeasts' which so many people seem to use for cider.]
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
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End of Cider Digest #1792
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