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Cider Digest #1777
Subject: Cider Digest #1777, 30 April 2013
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1777 30 April 2013
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Digest archives - usefulness? format? (Cider Digest)
Tank Size ("Rich Anderson")
RE: Tank Sizing (Digest 1776) (Peter Mitchell)
High density orchard yields for cider apple varieties (Ron Smith)
Re: tank sizing (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Digest archives - usefulness? format?
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:32:55 -0600 (MDT)
For many years I've maintained the Cider Digest archives as compressed
files per year. But does this make sense any more??? Storage is so cheap,
and transfer rates are so high, even where I am out in the Styx [sic] it
would be trivial to transfer the entire archive from Day 1, uncompressed.
It seems the annual compressed archives have become an anachronism.
Does anybody really want the compressed archives? If I don't get some
nontrivial interest, I intend to replace the existing archive-per-year
with a single directory, containing all Digests, uncompressed. This would
also allow you to search it from the outside with a generic search engine.
Replies to me, OFFline please--that is, to cider-request@talisman.com.
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
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Subject: Tank Size
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:47:59 -0700
How you plan to blend? A single orchard blend or a number of blends which
means smaller tanks to keep the varieties and blends separate. I would
recommend using variable capacity stainless steel tanks with standard 2" or
1.5" tri-clamp fittings and hose. You can use these tanks for both
fermentation and storage. They are easy to clean and have good resale value
if you need to change sizing. Ours are on stands and we use a heat lamp to
smooth out tank temperature variations during fermentation. For racking
and blending you always going to need a extra tank or so.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Tank Sizing (Digest 1776)
From: Peter Mitchell <lotic@juno.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 15:12:48 -0400
Hello Bud,
I am reminded of car ads on TV: "Your results may vary".
As I am sure you are aware, not only will the varieties differ in cider
yield, but the growing season will also change cider yield.
And, let's not forget about irrigation. That'll really change things
around!
I use a "rule of thumb" of 2-3 gallons (US) per bushel of apples
(closer to 3, than 2).
I find that has been true for the apples I grow (I don't irrigate), and
for most I have gotten from others.
That said, last year, I got a hold of some Honeycrisp. These delivered
about 4 gallons per bushel!
I'm using a Good Nature SX200 press (rehabilitated from a broken home),
being fed with an elderly OESCO grinder.
My cakes are still damp (but not dripping) when they come out of the
press, but they hold their shape.
I don't know about the "efficiency" of my pressing. This is the equipment
I have, this is what it does, and I can't afford to replace it.
If you squint a bit, a bushel weighs about 50 pounds. So, your
50,000 pounds translates into about 1,000 bushels.
Therefore, I'd expect you'd get about 3,000 gallons of sweet cider. In my
estimate is also the acknowledgement that you won't be pressing every
single apple.
You'll probably toss out a few for being just too darned ugly to press.
That bit of loss varies greatly from year to year, and is mostly due to
rough handling.
As for tank sizing, you'll have to take a look at how much floor
space you have, and how many apples you want to put into cold storage for
a later pressing (if any).
If you press all at once, and come up with either my estimate of 3000
gallons, or your estimate of 5000 gallons, then I would recommend 1000
gallon fermenters.
Of course, you may wish to press and ferment your different varieties
separately, and then back-blend them (resulting in the need for more, and
smaller, tanks).
Just don't put it all into one giant tank (all your eggs in one basket).
That would be way too nerve wracking. Speaking of "racking", don't forget
to have an extra tank for racking!
Ok, "my two-cents".
It would be good to hear from others about what they can get out of a
bushel of apples.
- -Peter Mitchell
Headwater Cider
(Original Message Below)
Subject: tank sizing
From: "Bud and Jen" <budandjen@bresnan.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:18:23 -0600
Can anyone give me a rough idea of the fermentation tank capacity I would
need to process apples based on yield? For instance, If my orchard produces
50,000 lb./year and I anticipate processing it all into cider, what would
be a good combination to start for fermentation, holding, mixing tank sizes?
Assuming 80% efficiency at the press and 8lb per gallon, I would get
approximately 5,000 gallons of juice, but not all at once and could likely
do at least 2 concurrent fermentations. I do have 5-6 different varietals
but don't want to confuse the issue too much.
Thanks,
Bud
------------------------------
Subject: High density orchard yields for cider apple varieties
From: Ron Smith <rcs2510@mac.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 17:06:00 -0700
I'm hoping someone might have some experience with growing cider apple
varieties in a high density system like a tall spindle planting. There
is a great deal of data relating to culinary and dessert varieties but
almost nothing that I can find on cider varieties. I'm hesitant to
assume that cider varieties would have similar yields. Perhaps even
yields for any type of planting system would be helpful as I may be able
to extrapolate the yield for a high density planting. I understand
there are many variables involved with respect to climate, location,
variety, etc. but any insights and information would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks very much!
Ron Smith
------------------------------
Subject: Re: tank sizing
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:18:04 -0600
In the last CD, "Bud" asked what sort of tank combinations and capacities
he might need. Example was:
> ...For instance, If my orchard produces
> 50,000 lb./year and I anticipate processing it all into cider, what would
> be a good combination to start for fermentation, holding, mixing tank sizes?
> Assuming 80% efficiency at the press and 8lb per gallon, I would get
> approximately 5,000 gallons of juice...
You're somewhat over-optimistic there, but OK. (Reserve capacity is good,
but it's not free.)
The larger part of the concern is how the tanks fit with your facility!
Are you getting a custom building or re-purposing an existing one? If
you are adapting an existing building, look at constraints:
* Will tanks fit through the doors?
* Can they be brought upright under the ceiling?
* Can the floor take the loading? (A full 1000-gal tank is ~ 5 tons)
* How are you going to package--small bottles, large bottles, kegs?
Overall, how do the tanks fit with the rest of the process.
Also, it DOES matter how many blends you might want to make. The number of
tanks you need is at least one more than the number of blends (because you
need the "temporary variable" for racking).
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1777
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