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Cider Digest #1696
Subject: Cider Digest #1696, 2 March 2012
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1696 2 March 2012
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1695, 25 February 2012 (Bryan Ulbrich)
A sulfite question ("JosephC")
good crown capper? (Dick Dunn)
Re: flash pasteurization (Mike Faul)
Esopus who?? (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1695, 25 February 2012
From: Bryan Ulbrich <bryan@leftfootcharley.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:28:41 -0500
Re: Dry, the perception of dry, and the intentional misleading use of dry
Its such a parched word, dry.
I know that winemakers moonlighting into the cider world have
a questionable reputation but I'll speak up....
we Riesling producers have the same issues regarding residual sugar that
Mr. Dunn so perfectly expressed. Everyone talks dry but drinks sweet. A
confusing tradition of German labeling has made matters worse for the
American consumer. The problem is extenuated because some regions have
very strong acidty and despite higher residual sugar, their wines still
come off tasting dry. Other warmer regions have low TA/high pH and even a
hint of sugar makes them taste flabby. In other words: sugar lies. What
is dry? Taste, chemistry, or maybe, it's both.
A group of Riesling producers established the International Riesling
Foundation primarily to tackle the labeling/marketing issues relating to
dry, medium dry, sweet etc. The short of it is that we developed a scale
that is based not solely on sugar levels. The Riesling taste profile takes
pH, titratable acidity, and residual sugar into account and developed a
sliding scale that better represents the perception of the wine and not
just its chemistry. Someday we'd like to add alcohol into the mix as
well. Check out www.drinkriesling.com and look up their methods and
reasoning. It may have some validity in cider marketing. Its a voluntary
system and many do not abide. But at least it has started the
conversation- what is dry?
Then theres the source of the sweetness - but that gets really contentious.
Bryan Ulbrich
Left Foot Charley
Wine~Cider~Food
------------------------------
Subject: A sulfite question
From: "JosephC" <jmcerie@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:38:36 -0700
Cider Makers,
Many of us sulfite our juice before pitching a cultured yeast strain in
order to suppress the wild yeasts and give the cultured yeast the advantage.
All cider makers, if they use sulfites, strive to use the minimum amount in
order to accomplish the goal, which is usually to deter undesirable yeasts
and other micro organisms during fermentation and later in storage. The
addition of sulfite to a cider, as in wine, adds SO2 (sulphur dioxide gas)
to the liquid and we are concerned with the amount added, commonly expressed
in parts per million (ppm) of SO2 added. There are food regulations
restricting the amount in the final product.
After adding So2 some of the gas binds with compounds in your juice and some
remains 'free' as dissolved SO2 gas in solution. The Ashton Long research
determined that only the free SO2 content is effective in suppressing non
desirable organisms.. I realize that acid content, temperature, tannins and
other factors affect the amount of free SO2 after adding the powder, liquid,
or tablets to apple juice.
I wonder if anyone has measured the change in total sulfites and free
sulfites in cider from initial dose to cider after racking and several
months and in storage. As an example, say I added a measured 120 ppm of SO2
before pitching the yeast, and then racked when fermentation has ceased to
remove the lees. Does anyone have a feeling for what the total and free SO2
levels might be a few months later when the cider is aging? I wonder how
much of that initial SO2 is thrown out with the lees and the escaping gas
during fermentation, The only accurate answer can be determined by chemical
analysis but experience will show a trend, so for those who do that
analysis, it would be interesting to hear what your measurements show.
Why is this important? If significant SO2 binds to the lees and is therefore
removed during racking, you have less sulfite in your finished cider. I am
very curious about how much SO2 goes away during fermentation and racking.
Thanks,
Joe at: jmccider@hotmail.com
------------------------------
Subject: good crown capper?
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:00:50 -0700
Anybody got suggestions for a good capper for crown-cap bottles? I'd like
to move beyond my old twin-lever cappers which are badly worn, also beyond
my ancient slot-machine type, which is nearly as old and tired as I am.
I just tried a newer slot-machine type, the Ferrari "Super Agata", which
seems to be available various places. But I find that bottles tend to
stick in the bell after capping and need to be pulled out. This is an
additional bit of hassle for every bottle, that I don't need. Also, the
adjustment to bottle height goes in steps which are too large: If you
have -just- the wrong size of bottle, one height is too high to close the
cap, but the next height down is so close to the bottle it knocks the cap
out of the bell. Seems like they shipped the beta-release version of this
one instead of finishing the design.
(And yes, I did try greasing the inside of the bell as directed to keep
caps from sticking in the bell, even though that grates on me because I
don't want any sort of grease around my cider even on the outside of a
bottle. But anyway it helped only a tiny bit.)
I'd like to find some intermediate solution to capping moderate quantities,
hopefully a bit more automated or at least quicker. I don't mind spending
several times what the hobbyist cappers cost, but it's not reasonable to
spend a couple months' income on a pneumatic capper.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: flash pasteurization
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:29:53 -0800
Yes, that would work. But you would need to ensure that the container
you are going to condition it in is perfectly sanitized, especially if
there is any residual sugar at all.
Post bottling pasteurization is preferable IMHO.
I do neither though, instead opting for sterile filtration as I don't
have a pasteurization tunnel.
On 2/25/2012 3:40 PM, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: flash pastuerization
> From: "Sarah Showalter"<sarah@showaltersorchardandgreenhouse.com>
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 07:57:15 -0500
>
>
> Hello,
> In order to further stabilize our cider , we're considering passing it
> through our flash pasteurizer (165 degrees for 15 seconds) after it has
> been filtered but before it goes to a pressure tank for carbonation. Has
> anyone tried this? What are your thoughts about this method?
> We already have this piece of equipment that we use for our commercial
> apple juice (fresh, sweet cider). It would be wonderful to utilize it in
> this way too.
> Thanks for your input!
------------------------------
Subject: Esopus who??
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 22:40:59 -0700
I stumbled yesterday on writing the name of an apple, realized I didn't
know how to spell it, looked around, and couldn't find an authoritative
answer.
Is it
Esopus Spitzenberg
or
Esopus Spitzenburg
???
Even Morgan & Richards, which I would expect to be well researched, uses
-burg in the heading about the apple but -berg in the text.
I'd like to find an authoritative answer--not just opinions. (You know
what they say about opinions..:-)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1696
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