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Cider Digest #1650
Subject: Cider Digest #1650, 14 August 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1650 14 August 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Cider Digest 20th Anniversary (Cider Digest Admin)
Re: Cider Digest #1649, 12 August 2011 (Stephen Wood)
Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider (Nat West)
Maceration (hroth521@comcast.net)
Re: Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider (Claude Jolicoeur)
Subject: Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider ("Joanna Bailey")
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest 20th Anniversary
From: Cider Digest Admin <cider-request@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 10:35:06 -0600
This issue marks the 20th anniversary of the Cider Digest--the first issue
as a digest came out on 14 August 1991. (It followed from a mailing list
which had existed for a short while before that.)
Time for reflection, of course.
The general understanding of cider has improved greatly. It's no longer
a matter of a can of grocery-store apple juice concentrate, water, and
a packet of some unknown yeast. We rarely hear about homebrewers making
the step to cidermaking but boiling the juice and adding hops. (!)
With no particular modesty, we can say that the Cider Digest has played
a significant role in the understanding of, and enthusiasm for, cider
in North America.
It's been particularly important for people who are isolated from the
few serious regions where there's a lot of cidermaking. (I count myself
among those so helped: Colorado has just four commercial cidermakers,
of whom two have started within the last year. It can get lonely here!)
There hasn't been any comparable sort of forum for cider over the years.
That can seem monopolistic perhaps, but it does mean that people know
where to look and meet up with other cidermakers online. Also, the
people here have been friendly and nobody has tried to dominate or push
the Digest to their own ends.
(Now there is a kindred effort in the Cider Workshop
http://www.ciderworkshop.com
which has mostly UK subscribers, but is of worldwide interest. Have a
look!)
In North America (at least) there's been a significant growth in commercial
cider production. If you look at Old Time Dave's cider map project
http://www.oldtimecider.com/north-american-cider-map
you can see large clusters of cider producers, and well over a hundred
overall. This is up dramatically from a decade ago.
Looking back through the Digest and other writing about cider, it's been
a long time that cider was "on the edge" of becoming something big. The
idea, the hope, was that cider would follow the path of the microbrewery
revolution and then the boutique-winery explosion. It didn't happen; you
can read the same "real soon now" predictions for more than a decade!
But is it happening now? At the risk of being fooled again, I'll say I
think it is!
The subscriber list size for the Cider Digest is interesting. Here's the
number at the start of each year going back a decade:
2001 580
2002 540
2003 569
2004 632
2005 652
2006 649
2007 663
2008 645
2009 712
2010 837
2011 910
curr 945
I don't have an easy way to read the media for pre-2001, but it had been
nearly flat for some time prior to that. These are snapshot numbers, so
+/- 20 is not significant.
What we see is that some sort of interest started to pick up in 2004--I'm
guessing this was because Cider Digest info was available at Franklin
County Cider Day 2003. It climbed slowly, then has really been climbing
for the past 2-3 years. I read into that a true building of interest in
real cider.
Anyway, here we are, 20 years on. If any of you have particular thoughts
on (your time in) this 20-year journey, go ahead and post them. Also, if
you see particular changes or additions that you would help the Digest,
make them known so that people can respond. There will be changes, but
I don't want to break anything that works.
Special thanks to Jay Hersh, who got this whole thing rolling back in 1991
and kept his hand on the wheel long enough to be sure it stayed on track.
Jay is still with us, although mostly incommunicado net-wise just now
because of a project he's working on.
And thanks to all of the contributors over the years who have made the
Digest a valuable resource, and have helped cidermakers sort out the
inevitable problems. I'll remind you all that I do NOT moderate the
Digest. I'm the janitor--I take out the trash (spam) and clean up
(layout problems that some mailers create). The content is up to you
folks, so if you like it, give yourselves a pat on the back.
I think I'm good for another 20 years of this. How about the rest of you?
- --
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1649, 12 August 2011
From: Stephen Wood <swood@farnumhillciders.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:37:39 -0400
Does anyone have perry pear wood, of any sort, to spare next spring? I want
to run another grafting trial here, and would be grateful for any and all
sources of dormant wood.
Steve Wood.
Stephen M. Wood
Farnum Hill Ciders
98 Poverty Lane
Lebanon, NH 03766
swood@farnumhillciders.com
Office: (603) 448 1511
Fax: (603) 448 7326
Cell: (603) 252 5696
------------------------------
Subject: Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider
From: Nat West <natjwest@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:59:57 -0700
Christopher, I have used Cote des Blancs on a number of varieties and I have
not found a single one that didn't produce horrific sulphur. That is to say,
all varieties of apples I have tried with Cote des Blanc have ended up
super-sulphured and difficult to smell. They drink okay though, thankfully.
I continue to struggle with sulphur taint myself, moreso since moving up in
tank size to 55 gallon. I have a theory that sulphur increases if you
ferment under a tighter airlock. For classic s-type airlocks, it seems to be
reduced, but my barrels are closed all around and I have to manually "burp"
them during active fermentation. They get much more sulphur-stink that
smaller vessels.
- -Nat West, Portland Oregon
> From: Christopher McGarvey <thornsbreak@gmail.com>
> ineffectual. This would leave the original Cotes des Blancs yeast to do the
> carbonating-- however, this yeast would be in poor shape after racking, 9
> months of aging, and racking again. That would potentially explain the
> lackluster performance of the bottle conditioning, as well as perhaps the
> sulfur off-flavors, which might have been rendered by the few, unhealthy and
> overstressed Cotes des Blancs yeast cells left around to do the job.
------------------------------
Subject: Maceration
From: hroth521@comcast.net
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:12:21 +0000 (UTC)
I have read about maceration (leaving the pomace for 24 hours prior to
pressing) with regards to keeving. However, I saw a brief note about how it
adds color and body to juice that is fermented normally. Does anyone have
any experience with leaving the pomace for 24 hours prior to pressing? Does
it make a difference, better or worse? I might try a batch this year and
also let it ferment with ambient yeast, but thought I'd check.
Thanks
Howard
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:04:23 -0400
In Cider Digest #1649, 12 August 2011
>Subject: Re: Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider
>From: Christopher McGarvey <thornsbreak@gmail.com>
>
>This prompts another question. For those of you that bottle condition
>naturally, what is your process? Do you add fresh yeast at bottling, and if
>so, what strain?
I often add fresh yeast, but not always - it mostly depends on how long the
cider has been maturing, how clear it is and ultimately if I think there is
still enough live yeast cells to pursue the fermentation in bottle. When I
add yeast, I use the same strain that I used for the main fermentation,
most often Lalvain EC1118 (Champagne).
>Do you prime with some sort of sugar, or do you bottle
>early, when gravity hits 1.005 or so?
I do both. When the cider clears before attaining dryness, I will bottle it
without priming. Otherwise, I wait until it is well cleared, then prime and
bottle.
>How long do you find it necessary to
>mature after bottling before flavor hits stride?
Normally, minimum of 4 months before tasting it. Most often a full year
before drinking the bulk of it.
>Is it normal to encounter
>rough or harsh flavors at first, and do they dissipate?
I would give it some time before having a definite opinion. As I said
above, I wait 4 months before tasting, so maybe by that time it has
dissipated. Normally, after 12 months, the cider is better than after 4
months...
> Does anyone have
>general guidance on the art of bottle carbonating cider? Is artificial
>carbonation a more favorable approach?
I have never done artificial carbonation, but it is said to give results
that are not as good as bottle refermentation. Bubbles are larger and the
mousse doesn't hold much. Same sort of difference as in between a true
Champagne and a cheap carbonated sparkling wine.
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Subject: Sulfur aroma developed after bottling cider
From: "Joanna Bailey" <joanna@seventreesfarm.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:52:41 -0700
I'm definitely a long-term novice at cidering (been making mead, beer, wine
& cider for over 20 years), but I like to experiment and don't give up on
batches that seem 'odd'. For bottling I generally use a cup of water and
dissolve a cup of priming sugar (very fine corn sugar) into it, and mix this
into a sterilized bucket siphoning the cider onto it, then into the bottles.
In 2008 I did a batch from random apples a neighbor had, mostly dessert
varieties. I used Nottingham ale yeast and nothing else. I left it in the
carboy for a while, racking a few times, and when I went to bottle it, it
smelled bad. Bad enough that I labelled the case boxes "Apple Ass".
I just finished the 2 cases of 12oz bottles of this brew, which took over a
year to mature into a dry crisp wonderfully refreshing cider, with no funky
smell at all. At one point I googled for info about bad-smelling cider and
stumbled upon someone's blog post about their 'ass' smelling cider that also
matured into a drinkable beverage. That is what made me decide to just stash
the bottles in my pantry for a while, and my patience paid off.
Try this google - http://tinyurl.com/3vfgmou and hang in there.
- -Joanna
www.seventreesfarm.wordpress.com
..................................
This prompts another question. For those of you that bottle condition
naturally, what is your process? Do you add fresh yeast at bottling, and if
so, what strain? Do you prime with some sort of sugar, or do you bottle
early, when gravity hits 1.005 or so? How long do you find it necessary to
mature after bottling before flavor hits stride? Is it normal to encounter
rough or harsh flavors at first, and do they dissipate? Does anyone have
general guidance on the art of bottle carbonating cider? Is artificial
carbonation a more favorable approach?
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1650
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