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Cider Digest #1684
Subject: Cider Digest #1684, 8 January 2012
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1684 8 January 2012
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
pH testing (michael billingsley)
bubble tax below 7% (Nat West)
Cider Digest- Cidery Start-up (Kate Arscott-Mills)
Acetic smell and taste (Andrew Lea)
Re: Hops in Cider (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: pH testing
From: michael billingsley <billingsleycider@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 15:34:27 -0700
In response to Tarzan and Andrew Lea on the subject of WSU research on pH
strips. I recently was at WSU for Peter Mitchell's cider class. In a
class of maybe 25 students we tested our juice with strips and then
compared our reading with the reading from a meter. All the results were
very accurate except for maybe two students who had readings that were off
by a significant amount. I cannot however remember the brand of the strips.
Michael Billingsley
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Subject: bubble tax below 7%
From: Nat West <natjwest@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 15:02:03 -0800
Does anyone know for sure whether cider below 7% ABV and above 3.92 g/l CO2
must pay the sparkling wine tax? By "for sure", I mean you've discussed
this explicitly with the TTB.
There are two ways to read the regs. Another cidermaker and I differ in the
reading. He pays just the cider tax (.226) despite creating going over 3.92
g/l and reads it that the bubble tax only applies if you're ALSO at or
above 7%.
- -Nat West, Portland Oregon
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Subject: Cider Digest- Cidery Start-up
From: Kate Arscott-Mills <karscottmills@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 20:14:08 -0500
We are in the process of putting together a business plan for our cidery
and want to see if anyone has suggestions or advice regarding the essential
equipement needed to begin cider production on the scale of 500 gallons at
first and eventually 2,000 gallons per year.
Can anyone give advice on vendors to contact for the major pieces of
equipment (we are in NC)? And any recommendation for specific equipment
you have used for production at this scale would be greatly appreciated.
- apple washer
- grinder
- press
- fermentation tank
- Bottler
- We realize there are many small odds and ends needed but are there any
other major items we should consider?
Kate Arscott
Bent Apple Farm
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Subject: Acetic smell and taste
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 08:59:11 +0000
On 04/01/2012 20:17, Jack O Feil wrote:
> I believe there was something about this in a previous digest, but don't
> recall if there was a solution or not. I fermented forty gallons of juice
> last year, added Campden tablets before fermentation, got distracted so
> nothing done to it since. I checked it out several weeks ago, it had a
> distinct acetic smell and taste but not turned to vinegar. Is there
> something I can do to salvage this batch?
It is probable that you have excess ethyl acetate due to bacterial
action rather than large amounts of actual acetic acid (which has
virtually no aroma). But "acetic" is the shorthand descriptor for that
nonetheless.
A standard dodge is to referment the cider in some way (for instance add
to a new ferment or add more yeast and a little sugar). The ethyl
acetate will be re-metabolised by the yeast and you can effectively
start again!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Hops in Cider
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 15:54:13 -0700
In digest 1682, Robert Kuntz wrote:
> I dry hop everything because I can't get a proper tannin bitterness to
> my ciders.
Robert - Could you explain your thinking here? I know you're a brewer
type and a chemist, which only puzzles me more.
Conventionally, hops in brewing are added early on (kettle hops) for
bitterness, where a lot of the volatiles are boiled off. Hops added
late, or particularly dry-hopping, are reckoned to maximize retention
of hop aroma/flavor while extracting little bitterness. So why wouldn't
you want to boil the hops or perhaps make a "tea" to get the bitterness
you're after.
(There is a flavored cider made by Colorado Cider Co just recently, in
which they've dry-hopped specifically to get the hop aroma without much
bitterness.)
Also--why hops (other than that you've got them)? Hop bitterness isn't
like tannin bitterness; also I wouldn't think you could get the same
mouthfeel as with tannins. Nor would you have the chance for some of
the flavor notes that can be built by MLF in presence of tannins.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1684
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