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Cider Digest #1686
Subject: Cider Digest #1686, 16 January 2012
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1686 16 January 2012
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: Problems with pear fermentations (John Brett)
Rationale for hopped cider / yeast viability during long storage (Robert K...)
Champagne and Regular Corker (Richard Schoeler)
Cider Conference 2012 (Wandering Aengus Ciderworks)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: Problems with pear fermentations
From: John Brett <jbrett@eastlink.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:45:36 -0400
I am sending this out to all my cider colleagues - both commercial and
amateur - who have experience with pear fermentations. In the hope that such
a broad pool of knowledge will yield some insights that may help us beat a
persistent problem.
We are now into our third vintage of a sparkling pear cider. Compared to
apple based ciders, we have found pear based ciders very difficult to get
through fermentation with clean aromas and taste. Our fermentations take
place in 1000 liter tanks. They tend to be slow and steady, with
fermentation temperatures between 10C and 15 C (50F - 60F). Various yeast
strains have been tried, with appropriate attention paid to nutrient
additions. In short, we follow a regime that has worked very well for us
with apple based ciders. The problem is, the regime doesn't work for pear.
Fermentations proceed to near completion without problems. But as the pear
ciders get very close to finished - between SG 1.005 and SG 1.000 - they
start to develop off aromas - H2S and other sulphur related odours. Once we
get a whiff of this, we have learned from hard experience to get the cider
off the lees asap. But even even so, the lees are truly vile, with a sticky,
gelatinous substance. And if cider is left on these lees for any amount of
time, the lees contaminate the cider with off flavours.
We are very careful about grading our pears before pressing. And we tend to
use later varieties which are not so prone to brown from the inside out,
unlike earlier varieties which we find very difficult to grade with any
confidence. We also adjust TA and blend with some higher acid apples such as
cox orange to lower pH. This is done prior to fermentation.
Still, our fermentation problems persist. So I am wondering what is the
experience of other pear cider-makers. Please free to contact me off-digest
at jbrett@eastlink.ca if you prefer.
John Brett Tideview Cider
------------------------------
Subject: Rationale for hopped cider / yeast viability during long storage
From: Robert Kuntz <bodyelectric2@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:54:48 -0700
RE: Rationale for hopped cider / yeast viability during long storage
I accidentally deleted the digest where the question "Why hop your
cider?" was asked. Here's my reasoning.
I don't have an orchard, or access to true cider apples, short of one
Northern Spy, so my cider is highly acidic and lacks tannins. I have
had some success using crab apples, but the ones I have available are
mostly sharps, so I'm out of luck there too. I have tried adding
tannins from a wine supplier, but all I have accessible to me is
derived from European Chestnut trees, and it doesn't taste quite
right.
Since I'm already using chosing to use alternate tannin sources, I
figured I'd use something I'm familiar with, that I already grow in my
yard, and that will add some micrbiological stability to my product -
particular as it sits still and aging for up to a year. Since I'm
after a touch of bitterness and not just astringency-bitterness in my
cider, I've come to experimenting with aroma hops. They are typically
higher in tannins, and their high level of beta-acids will oxidize to
a form that is a bitter in flavor, though not character to
iso-alpha-acids. I've also used aged bittering hops, where the alphas
have oxidized, so that flavor isn't as pronounced or even present.
Hence, I'm using hops for the same reasons as brewers (flavor and
microbial stability), but looking for a different flavor profile.
I've noted that my hopped ciders are very clear - clearer than the
same batch that I split and didn't hop. (I make bottle-conditioned
sparkling cider).
The trade offs of hopped ciders are low/no chance of malolactic
fermentation unless I use a culture, it's another thing to filter, and
I'm making a non-traditional cider.
Someone had another question about how long yeast lives in the carboy.
From personal experience, I can share that it's strain and
temperature dependant.
Strain first - I have had no success getting Cote de Blanche to
bottle condition, so I was suprised to read someone had. I find wine
strains except the Lavlin 71b and 1118 crap out and die a sulfury
death pretty quickly, especially at temps above 15C. I've had plenty
of champagne, lager, and ale yeast bottle condition a beverage even
after sitting up 2 months at temps between 4 and 15C. I personally
always culture the priming vessel with fresh yeast if the beverage sat
in the secondary fermenter for more than six weeks, just to be safe.
Usually I do this with yeast I cropped from the primary, regrew on
some low gravity juice/wort/media for a day or two, and then put in
the fridge till I was ready to bottle.
As for temperature impact on yeast storage...the colder, the better.
I have had great success storing yeast for years at a time in a fridge
at 4C, as long as I take them out every 3-6 months and feed them till
the sulfur volatilizes off and they are "healthy" again. However, I
don't know how much if any mutation has occured, I don't check
morphology under a microscope, nor do I measure viabilities using
methylene blue or violet. I'm basically just checking vitality, which
is more of a "grow/no-grow" measure, and says nothing about how much
to re-pitch. I just guess.
Robert
------------------------------
Subject: Champagne and Regular Corker
From: Richard Schoeler <rcschoeler@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:18:21 -0800 (PST)
"I'm looking to purchase a versatile corker that can do both champagne and
regular corks for ciders and wines."
________________________________
Here is what I use successfully with regular, champagne and even Belgian
beer bottle corks:
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/champagne-floor-corker.html
Add this item and the rig can also be used for regular crown caps and does
so very well:
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/bottle-capping-bell-housing-champagne-floor-corke
r.html
Midwest Supplies get two thumbs up from me.
Richard S.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Conference 2012
From: Wandering Aengus Ciderworks <info@wanderingaengus.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:03:35 -0500
Cider Conference 2012 - Chicago, IL, February 9 & 10. Make your cider and
yourselves known.
Is this email not displaying correctly?
[1]View it in your browser.
Links:
1. http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c3a30a23d246ca0a3a5717184&id=b825f
679b7&e=bbf65d3fe3
_Cider Conference 2012_
February 9th & 10th
Chicago, IL
_Save the date NOW
Please send this e-mail to any and all individuals related to the Cider
Industry you know
February 9, 10am to 5pm, Federal Regulation Meeting
_A continuation of last year's Cider Conference's regulation meeting. This
year the goal is to reach consensus amongst attendees on the basic changes
that were proposed last year and to put together a plan to begin action now.
This is a very important time to get the changes made in Federal Regulations
to insure long term growth of the US Cider Industry. More information will
be sent out to those that respond they will attend the meeting. [2]Please
fill out survey.
Links:
2. http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246c
a0a3a5717184&id=c3c272519b&e=bbf65d3fe3
_February 10, 9am to 5pm, __Cider Workshop/Discussion Tracks_
Three tracks of workshops/discussions focused on Cidermaking, Cider Fruit
Production, and Cider Marketing/Business. A survey to finalize workshop
topics within each track will be sent out to everyone that responds that
they will attend this day. [3]Please fill out survey.
Links:
3. http://wanderingaengus.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=c3a30a23d246
ca0a3a5717184&id=6615ea6113&e=bbf65d3fe3
_February 10, 6pm to 9pm, CiderCon Tasting_
An evening to share your latest and greatest ciders with your cider
colleagues.
_Location_: _Chicago, IL, exact location TBD_ (depends on the number of
attendees)
_Cost_: _TBD_ (depends on location, approximately $75 to $150/day for a
suitable location and catered lunch)
_WHY a Cider Conference_: This conference is being organized for two main
reason. 1) The current state of US cider regulations is precarious for every
domestic producer and importer of cider. As the cider market begins to grow
at a rapid pace in the US it is only a matter of time before the current
regulations are enforced across the industry. We need to come together as an
industry to change the current regulations now to insure no regulatory
interruption to the Cider's growth. 2) There is a great need for cider
producers and imports to meet their industry colleagues to discuss and
exchange ideas on practices, innovations, and trends to provide the
foundation of a strong and diverse industry.
_WHO is organizing it_: Wandering Aengus Ciderworks is organizing this
conference for a second year. In the past we were found to be in violation
of US Federal Regulations and believe strongly in making some basic
regulatory changes. And we realize that an attempt to propose changes alone
will be worthless. After attending many beer and wine industry events, we
have come to realize that Cider will never become a legitimate category of
diverse offerings unless a collegial and formal Cider Industry starts to
take shape to support its current and prospective members and industry
specific trade allies.
This e-mail has been sent to over 50 different Cider Companies and every
effort has been taken to make this event as inclusive as possible. Again,
please forward this to any and all individuals you know who are associated
with the Cider Industry.
If you have any questions or comments please me directly.
Hope to see you in February.
James Kohn
Wandering Aengus Ciderworks
503-798-7569
james@wanderingaengus.com
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End of Cider Digest #1686
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