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Cider Digest #1630
Subject: Cider Digest #1630, 12 May 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1630 12 May 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011 ("Rosalind Rogoff")
Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011 (Bill Rhyne)
Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011 (denniswaller@comcast.net)
Who Buys Cider ("Rich Anderson")
Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011 (Daniel Rowland)
another gasket idea (adam gilbert)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011
From: "Rosalind Rogoff" <contact@sanramonobserver.org>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 10:17:25 -0700
I'm not a cider maker but I am a cider buyer, so I'll answer Jason
MacArthur's questions from my perspective. I'm female in my late 60's. I
doubt I am the normal American cider purchaser, but who knows, maybe Mr.
MacArthur could open up an untapped (pun intended) demographic.
I learned to love cider when traveling through Europe in the mid-1960's.
French and Swiss ciders are packaged and sold more like wine. British and
German ciders are more like beer, probably because those fit into the
drinking patterns of those countries.
American ciders seem to be packaged and sold in the beer or flavored ale
sections of the supermarkets where I live (California). California is a big
wine state, so it might be better to market cider as wine here, but I have
not seen it done that way much. I don't drink beer, but I buy cider in the
beer section of the store.
I like the Woodchuck ciders, which are made in Vermont. These tend to be
sweeter and have a recognizable apple taste. I don't like ciders that are
heavy on malic acid. I believe American cider companies do that to appeal
to the beer crowds. You might do better marketing to wine drinkers and
older women like me. I think a lot of women would drink a fruity cider if
they were easier to find and try. Ask the Woodchuck people who is buying
their ciders.
Roz
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011
From: Bill Rhyne <bill_rhyne@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Who buys cider in the USA? Whetstone Ciderworks
Other cidermakers from other parts of the country can weigh in on their
experience but when we were selling our cider, several market segments
were identified.
First, the craftbrew crowd like cider as it fit with their interest in
traditionally made beverages.
Secondly, there is a small seasonal market for all of the Renaissance Fair
crowds as they like to serve cider.
Thirdly, there is a gender difference. We found women were more open to
drinking cider than men as they like the fruit based beverages (wine
included) more than grain based beverages, which tend towards bitter
flavors. Talk to any brewpub staff that serves cider and see what they say.
Fourthly, there are those from countries (England, France, Spain, maybe
Germany) who know the category and like cider so they search for it. England
is the largest international cider market.
Fifthly, there is the segment that we were targeting--the wine crowd that
appreciated well-made or sophisticated beverages but wanted something with
a lower alcohol profile than wine but higher than water. We had comments
from people at tastings who said that they liked our cider because they
could drink it while cooking with it during the week and not have a
hangover if they consumed the whole bottle. Some people were older people
who traditionally drank fine wine but as they aged, they found that they
could not tolerate the alcohol levels in wine. Our cider was a "wine-lite"
for these people--less alcohol and less calories that wine.
As for hard data to estimate the size of these segments, that is hard
to come by. I have looked and continue to monitor trade and government
data. The market was growing the 1990s and then flattened in the early
2000s from what I found and can remember. A person can get cider data
from the folks who track alcoholic beverage shipments--the Fed, the state,
import/export numbers, as well as possibly apple trade industry folks.
Since the hard cider category is still small in the USA, there is a lot of
"hand-selling" that a producer needs to do to establish a relationship
with his target market at the trade level and the individual consumer
level. A good website can help in this area to educate the market about
your product, company, philosophy, and so on. But tasting the real stuff
is the best method for converting people.
Good luck!
Bill Rhyne
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011
From: denniswaller@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:42:34 +0000 (UTC)
Several cideries have been established in the Skagit valley just south of
Bellingham WA in? the NW corner of the state. This is an? apple growing
region with a Washington State University research center on pomology
so both? raw materials and the technical advice are readily available.?
With few exceptions the ciders I tried were both very expensive and had an
unattractive taste. They lack the clean, fresh and tangy taste? of a good
cider? ? ? I? am uncertain why their product is so poor? but until it
improves I doubt sales will rise to the point of making locally produced
cider a financially remunerative business. Another competitive challenge
is the? presence of two excellent? microbreweries.
Dennis Waller
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Subject: Who Buys Cider
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:32:51 -0700
When we first started marketing craft cider in 1999, I thought the average
cider consumer would be mid 40's-50's looking for something different,
lighter than beer, less alcohol than wine. I think this is about half right
and the age range is more like mid 20's-30's.
At retail, cider is often placed in the craft beer section rather than on
the shelf with wine. For whatever it is worth likely points to how retailers
feel about cider and is an indicator of what pricing is expected.
Pouring at wine events was a trial as many wine drinkers would pass by with
little interest. Pouring at beer events was better, the non-beer drinkers
would come and even the beer drinkers would use cider as a refreshing rinse
out after consuming heavy beer. I originally bottled in 650 ml amber beer
bottles (availability and price was reasonable) but most cider producers at
the time seem to think a 750 ml bottle was more appropriate, wanting a wine
look package. Today in the Northwest there seems to be a movement to 500 ml
amber bottles and I believe this is to get a price point appropriate to
market expectations.
Today there seems to be more consumer knowledge about craft cider and a
small but growing market share. It makes sense to me that craft cider
producers focus more on marketing cider as cider and start carving out a
distinct market instead of trying to emulate the beer or wine segments. One
thing that helps is to organize as cider makers, this approch has success
with regional organizations in the Midwest and the Northwest. Organization
needs mass, in the Northwest where there were maybe three or four producers
organization seemed daunting, with 8 to 10 producers not so daunting and
there is a payoff in joint marketing and communication.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1629, 9 May 2011
From: Daniel Rowland <vigneronrowland@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 15:09:01 -0700 (PDT)
http://hortmgt.dyson.cornell.edu/pdf/resources/sp2000-06.pdf
here is a marketing analysis for hard cider from cornell, it is from 2000
not too recent but it may help.
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Subject: another gasket idea
From: adam gilbert <aadamgilbert@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:10:02 -0700 (PDT)
Hello all, I make cider in modest quantities in Wardsboro, VT.
Gaskets: I realize that using beeswax is appealing from a food grade
standpoint, and that the material is endlessly recyclable, but it does seem
a little fussy to handle. My grandfather used to make custom gaskets for
various projects by making a paraffin mold and filling it with RTV silicone
sealant. He would strike it off flush with a putty knife and let it set up.
While the gasket is somewhat fragile when not actually in position between
two mating surfaces, it holds up quite well. We still have some that are
still functional, and they must be at least 25 years old. I don't know
why one couldn't do the same thing with food-grade silicone sealant.
Adam Gilbert
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End of Cider Digest #1630
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