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Cider Digest #1635
Subject: Cider Digest #1635, 6 June 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1635 6 June 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
More on mouse + Free SO2 testing + Oak barrels (Josh Klatt)
RE: Market for Cider ("Charles McGonegal")
Cider in the Northwest ("Rich Anderson")
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Subject: More on mouse + Free SO2 testing + Oak barrels
From: Josh Klatt <josh@joshklatt.com>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 22:09:53 -0400
"Mouse":
As Andrew mentioned, detection is influenced by pH- raise the pH of
your mouth with a quick rinse of baking soda in water, and "mouse" will
jump out at you. Since I never had a pet rodent growing up, I recognize
this characteristic as roasted corn, not a mouse's cage. (Andrew also
mentioned there is a genetic component- are some people really incapable
of sensing it?).
Free SO2 Testing:
Any suggestions for an inexpensive, reliable kit/method to calculate
free SO2 ? I've seen this one for $119 on morewinemaking.com, but will
it do the trick? http://goo.gl/vQl1V
Barrels:
Who's using oak barrels at any point during cidermaking ? I'm itching to
fill one up this fall and see what happens-- until now I've only used
glass carboys and stainless steel tanks-- any words of advice/warning ?
Anybody else on this list making cider in the Ohio Valley ?
- --Josh Klatt
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Subject: RE: Market for Cider
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:58 -0500
Dennis,
AeppelTreow Winery is located between Chicago and Milwaukee. We are going
into our 10th season. Here are some observations about my market
(everything is approximate) :
80% of visitors come from within 70 miles. That includes Milwaukee, Madison
and three metro Chicago counties.
More than half of that 80% comes from within 20 miles.
The remaining 20% is split between more distant IL & WI and the whole rest
of the world. With TX having a bigger slice than IN, MI or MN. My 70 mile
radius has something like 5-6 million people in it.
First lesson - have a source for marketing funding to come after initial
build out and production. Year 3-4 maybe. Bootstrapping it goes _slowly_.
Product line: champagne method cider/perry. $15-18/$750. Draft cider
$10.50 /4x187mL or $8 for 750mL. Heirloom fruit based and special blends
for $10. Still - $10/750. Fortified (pommeau) - $22/375.
On site visitors: Complete novices to beer geeks and cork dorks. The cork
dorks are the hardest to pitch to - but if they like it, they buy it. And
are usually surprised at the difference between my ciders and regional fruit
wines. Novices don't have any expectations. They just know if they like
it, and how much is in their wallet.
I find the beer geeks to be the most willing group of experienced tasters to
try things outside their experience. And also the group most likely to
acknowledge that a craft product is not a commodity product - and hand over
the buckos accordingly. And cheerfully.
Off site: My under 20 mile market is Bud Lite territory. Few venues for a
cider priced at Belgin ale levels ($100/sixth barrel after distribution). I
find getting through the flappers to the right buyers to be difficult,
especially in IL. They seem very certain about what their customers like,
and are used to getting a lot of freebies to push a brand just launching.
There are exceptions - but it takes time to find them. Likewise with
Milwaukee. But get off the major population centers, and the situation
changes. Madison is very interesting, for craft beer and cider. And I've
heard that my products have been seen in the IL Champagne-Urbana market.
Maybe it something about college towns, but Shelton Brothers tells me they
find the secondary markets to be very interesting, happening places.
Charles McGonegal
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Subject: Cider in the Northwest
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:14:27 -0700
Dennis, I am not sure where you are getting your information and I find your
postings irritating. You come across as a know it all, all this blather
about Northwest cider makers not knowing how to make a good cider or our
business plans, which for the most part were based on shear speculation and
probably tossed out years ago:)
I have been producing cider commercially for over 10 years about 40 miles
southwest of Bellingham, but do not think I have ever met you, but then
being over 70 may not remember. I do not think that Northwest cider makers
are competing with microbreweries. We are making and selling cider period
which is an entirely different construct with virtually no market research
on the subject other than small samples various producers have done.
Likewise the same can be said for cider for which there is no gold standard.
Like most cider makers, I take the apples I grow and with a little care and
craft try to make the best cider I can.
Perhaps rather that ask questions about marketing cider, you would share
what you as a consumer expect a good cider to be, how you would like it
packaged and be willing to pay. Perhaps your expectations can be met and
perhaps we will meet at one of the several Northwest cider events during
summer and fall to. Please drop by the Westcott Bay Cider table for a chat,
I would be happy to talk with you.
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End of Cider Digest #1635
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