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Cider Digest #1610
Subject: Cider Digest #1610, 20 January 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1610 20 January 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Applejack. (Charles McGonegal)
Re: Apple mix for custom pressing (Jimmy Kroon)
mold in wild ferment (Jarrod Brown)
Re: Cidermakers Conference ... (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Applejack.
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:24:14 -0600
My current hypothesis is that applejack means different things regionally.
In New England, it's the cryoconcentrated cider. In the mid atlantic states
it was apple brandy.
The TTB considers applejack to be a synonym for apple brandy. They also
allow something called blended applejack which is as little as 5% apple
brandy in neutral spirits.
The TTB doesn't really care if you use a still, freeze concentrate or
use special reverse osmosis systems. Any time you concentrate alcohol,
it's a DSP operation, not a bonded winery job.
Sent from my iPhone
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits
(262)496-7508=
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Apple mix for custom pressing
From: Jimmy Kroon <jimmy.kroon@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:10:33 -0500
David,
Two suggestions - first I like the book "Cider, Hard and Sweet: History,
Traditions, and Making Your Own" by Ben Watson for its inclusion of apples
that are more commonly found in North American orchards.
http://www.amazon.com/Cider-Hard-Sweet-History-Traditions/dp/0881508195/ref=pd_s
im_b_1
Second, a homebrew shop in your area has been getting custom pressed cider
from a local orchard for years and might help you club out - Keystone
Homebrew in Montgomeryville and Bethlehem.
Generally, you won't find tannic apples in an orchard unless it grows apples
specifically for cider. I've added crabapples successfully and liked the
result.
Jim
> While I've read a lot about cider making and judged cider quite a few
> times,
> I've only made ciders but just from commercially available drinking cider.
> Other than the basics, I don't know apples. Our club would be interested
> in having a local orchard do a custom pressing but we need to specify the
> apples. I don't know at the moment what apples they have. They are
> unlikely to have anything very rare or heritage and the cider they
> typically
> have is just good drinking cider. Could someone specify a selection of
> sugar apples, acidic apples and apples for tannins that I can use to talk
> to
> the orchard. At least with a list of apple varieties for each of the
> three
> categories it will be a good starting point.
>
> TIA,
>
> David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: mold in wild ferment
From: Jarrod Brown <jarrod.inorbit@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 22:56:39 -0800
Hi Cider digest. I have a question regarding what I assume is mold
forming atop of demi-johns that I am attempting a wild yeast ferment. I
am in the R&D stage of starting up a commercial cidery here in Nelson
BC. I have two different fresh press blends (variations of Winesap,
Johnagold, Newton Pippen, Crab). Each blend of coarse filtered fresh
press is divided into 4 different demi-johns for a total of 8 different
batches. One demi of each of the two blends is left for wild yeast
ferment. The other 6 were sulphited to 75 ppm and pitched with
commercial yeast.
On day 2, small white spheres of hardish material resembling styrofoam
was forming ontop of the two wild batches. The other 6 had no such
spheres. By day 3, the spheres were amalgamating into white 'cotton
balls', at which point I became alarmed and removed them with a
sterilized bottle brush. The cotton balls were cohesive to each-other
and did not break up when I skimmed them off with the brush. By day 5
the wild yeasts were doing their thing and there was no further sign of
the "mold?". Yay!
Does anyone know what the white substance was?... and is it likely to
have any residual negative effects at the end?... all considering that
at day 7 there is a happy ferment happening in all the demis.
Eventhough the skimming appears to have worked, is there a better way to
deal with it?
I have done several wild ferments over the years and this is the first
time I have seen this. The apples have been in cold storage at a
commercial packers until Jan 5, and were in very good shape. Does the
late pressing (Jan 10) have anything to do with it?
Jarrod Brown
SilverKing Cider Co.
Nelson BC, Canada
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cidermakers Conference ...
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:05:50 -0700
Nick Gunn forwarded info on the Cidermakers Conference in Feb, which as I
understand it is an effort on the part of Wandering Aengus. This is
really good in several aspects: Someone's trying to organize cidermakers
and get some (ultimately) formal conference activity going. Realizing
that this task is like the proverbial "herding cats"--more power to 'em.
It's also good to see it directed at commercial cidermakers, since there
are many concerns that simply don't affect home/hobbyists, even if the
home producers are making more cider than the small end of the commercial
producers.
However, there is one aspect of the conference that troubles me a bit.
Thursday's session is described as:
> Federal Cider Regulation Working Group
> The goal of the group is to define, and by the end, produce a generally
> agreed upon framework for Federal regulatory changes. This working group
> is geared toward larger producers (over 1,000 cases per year), importers,
> or distributors with a vested interested in a coherent set of Federal and
> State cider regulations.
Not trying to be -too- unkind, but no small part of the mess of the
current regulations--in particular, labeling and the effective lack of
a standard-of-identity for cider--are due to efforts of very large
"cider"makers in the past. (I quote "cider" because the ones I'm worried
about are really glucose-wine makers.) 1000+ cases per year represents
retail sales up into six figures, which looks very distant for artisan/
craft cidermakers starting out and without deep pockets!
I have two concerns, then. The first is, what's going to keep this effort
from being co-opted by the Really Big Guys? I have faith in Wandering
Aengus, both as a great maker of real cider and in -their- intentions
here, but sometimes money talks too loudly.
The second is, what about "the rest of us"? This isn't a job for the
folks organizing the conference, particularly this working group. But
it should make the little guys sit up, take notice, and think about
what -they- need. How do federal regs affect our ability to distinguish
what we do, keep it off glucose-wine/new-age/wine-cooler/"malternative"
shelf? Plus, while concerns about federal regulations are substantial,
they're only one of the hurdles faced by small craft/artisan producers.
(This came to my mind in another way today, as I was trying to find
rootstock in small quantities for in-filling and new experiments.)
I intend to start a separate thread, probably next digest, about what
can be done to organize and find resources for producers under that
1000-case threshold, even down to under 100 cases/year.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1610
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