Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1643
Subject: Cider Digest #1643, 11 July 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1643 11 July 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1642, 8 July 2011 (denniswaller@comcast.net)
Re: Cider Digest #1642, 8 July 2011 (Stephen Wood)
cider from heritage varieties or crabapples (Melissa)
Re: Cider apples/juice availability (Dick Dunn)
Tall spindle with cider varieties? (Alan Yelvington)
Carbonation/Mouthfeel issue (Sean Thompson)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1642, 8 July 2011
From: denniswaller@comcast.net
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 04:56:23 +0000 (UTC)
To: Melissa 5happyapples@gmail.com
I live in Bellingham, WA 15 miles south of the Canadian border and visit
Vancouver frequently. I urge you to talk with the US consul in Vancouver
but I am certain that you will be told that shipping fresh fruit across the
border to the US is strictly forbidden. Since the regulation is imposed to
prevent the spread of disease you may be allowed to ship pasteurized juice
but ask. However, TreeTop, a huge commercial apple grower from central
Washington will offer stiff competition on processed juice. But TreeTop
only sells unfermented apple cider.I don't think there are restrictions
on fermented cider because I have purchased bottled Canadian hard cider
in Bellingham on several occasions.
The Skagit Valley, just south of Bellingham, is an apple growing region
with a state funded research station (now closed because of budget
problems.) Several people are attempting to develop a market for hard
cider in NW Washington but I think they are not having a great deal of
financial success primarily because there are three excellent micro beer
breweries in Bellingham that produce excellent products including cast
conditioned ale and lager.
There is one small cidery in Bellingham, Honey Moon, but it is two blocks
from the largest and most successful microbrewery, Boundary Bay. I have tried
Honey Moon's ciders on several occasions but they don't impress me. On a
busy night they have 20 people drinking cider whileBoundary Bay has > 200!
In short I think it will be difficult to educate the local population to
choose cider over beer and generate sufficient sales to make a cidery a
financial success. But I suggest you spend a few days in Bellingham and
the Skagit valley trying the local ciders and talking with the owners
about business prospects.
Dennis Waller denniswaller@comcast.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1642, 8 July 2011
From: Stephen Wood <swood@farnumhillciders.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 10:34:36 -0400
To Andrew Lea:
We have routinely dissolved K2S2O5 in water before addition to juice or
finished cider. In ciders with pH of around 3.4-3.6, titration of free SO2
a day or so after addition (in aqueous solution) usually shows (suggests?)
that nearly 90% of the added SO2 remains unbound (unless there's something
in the juice/cider that we expected to bind it at once, or unless the pH is
considerably higher). So I don't get it, unless HSO3 is showing up as an
artifact in titration for free SO2. I'd love to know if we've been doing
this wrong for 20 years...
To Nat West and Dick Dunn:
For the sake of curiosity, I just looked up the March 809 pump. It's a
non-priming, low-head centrifugal pump. You're trying to make it do
something it wasn't designed to do. It's a good idea to learn how to read a
pump curve, and have a look at the one for your prospective pump before you
buy it. Anyway, one retailer's literature on the 809 HS says: "... these
pumps are not self-priming. That means the pump will need to be mounted
below the level of the liquid to be pumped. They will not work with a
siphon. This will cause the pumps to run dry, which will destroy the units
and void the warranty." This looks like a perfectly good pump to me, but
made for some other job than yours.
best,
Steve Wood.
------------------------------
Subject: cider from heritage varieties or crabapples
From: Melissa <5happyapples@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 11:28:38 -0700
Stemming from the lack of true cider fruit available here in British
Columbia, I am curious about people's experiences using heritage apples,
crabapples and/or dessert varieties in their cider (with no bittersweets
or bittersharps for blending)- which varieties you'd recommend, or
advise to stay away from.
I would like to experiment and work on learning the process/blending
over the next years as we wait for our (future!) cider grafts to
produce. We have a variety of crabapple pollinators on our orchard, a
selection of our dessert fruit, and there are many heritage varieties
available in the area. Hopefully this will give me something to work
from,as always - your experience and insight is appreciated.
Melissa Dobernigg
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider apples/juice availability
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:17:54 -0600
Melissa "5happyapples" wrote about starting a plan for a cidery, turning
from their current dessert apple production in the Okanagan Valley.
You've got a good background and you're in a good place for it--there are
a few long-established cideries in your region and a bunch of newer ones.
Interest is high.
For resources/contacts beyond the Cider Digest, best place to start is with
talking to other cidermakers in the area. Have a look at "Old Time" Dave
White's web site and his North American Cider Map project at:
http://www.oldtimecider.com/north-american-cider-map
This will give you locations and contact information. It also gives a
good indication that cider is serious business in the Pacific Northwest,
and is growing significantly.
As to getting started with your blending,
> ... I am looking for a small supply of cider fruit (or juice) for
> pressing this fall - maybe around 500lbs...
There are some growers in WA and OR who've had excess fruit to sell in
previous years. You're looking for a small enough amount that you just
need to ask around--if it's a good year up there, it's a fair chance that
someone's going to have more fruit than processing capacity.
However, I don't know the legal considerations of getting fruit or juice
across the border, and it's pointless to guess.
There are several cidermakers in Vancouver/Vancouver-Island (see the map
mentioned above), and I know that one of them--Merridale--has been
growing and using cider fruit for some time now. Worth a visit.
...
> 2) Recognizing we would base a business decision on further research
> than this digest alone, is there sufficient demand for cider fruit/juice
> that if we were to plant some of our bare land into cider varieties,
> beyond our own requirements, that we'd be able to sell it?...
Realize what you're asking here: You're looking at what demand there will
be, a number of years in the future, based on present circumstances!
Currently, from all I hear, demand for cider fruit well exceeds supply.
But that's partly because people are wanting to start cideries -now-,
yet their orchards won't be bearing in serious quantity for a while.
If the market for cider continues to grow, supply would continue to lag
demand unless people start a lot of speculative planting. Honestly, I
don't think the situation is going to be much clearer than that, and I
would be wary of "market research" which claims to have more definitive
answers.
> 3) Any tips that you can provide for a newbie like me about starting a
> small-scale commercial cidery are always appreciated - here on the
> digest or at 5happyapples@gmail.com :)
Main thing is to get out and talk to other cidermakers. I think you'll
find most of them to be open, even eager, to talk about cider business.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Tall spindle with cider varieties?
From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:14:55 -0400
Does anyone out there have experience growing
cider varieties as tall spindle trees?
I have a limited amount of space to work
with, so I'm giving this a shot. Any shared
experience would be appreciated.
Al Yelvington
Russell, PA
------------------------------
Subject: Carbonation/Mouthfeel issue
From: Sean Thompson <sthompson@jahcc.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
Everyone,
I have a great cider which I want to make carbonated. I tried sweetening with
saccrin and added just enough sugar to get it to carbonate in the bottle. But,
they taste in my opinion was not as good. I am wondering if I sweeten with
sugar. Then wait a few days and pastuerize to kill the yeast, will the bottles
maintain carbonation? Has anyone tried this?
Please advise
Thanks,
Sean
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1643
*************************
