Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1594
Subject: Cider Digest #1594, 11 November 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1594 11 November 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re:clear fresh juice (Charles McGonegal)
Pear cider digestive issues (Mike Faul)
Apple Jack (James Fishelson)
Franklin County Cider Day(s) (Alan Yelvington)
Pressing (Andrew Lea)
(denniswaller@comcast.net)
Re: What is the pH of titratable acidity of 0.36% (Dick Dunn)
Re: apple blend (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re:clear fresh juice
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:21:23 -0600
Rich, I've played around with making bright juice, both for fortification
and as a pseudo-keeve.
With apples, I've gotten a nice bright juice just from a pectinase (usually
rapidase vinosuper, but I'm trying others this year) dose followed by
a couple of days of rest at a cool temperature. I've seen the same thing
from frozen juice thawed without agitation and without pectinase.
This juice is bright enough to read print through a 5 gallon glass
carboy. But it still has a significant particle load, as I've discovered
by blinding several membrane filters. The particle size seems to be right
about 1 micron.
The other thing is that I'm not sure it would stay clear in the presence
of lots of ethanol. Spirits are quirky. I think you'll need to be prepared
to filter after addition to the spirits.
Pears are another matter, also.
Sent from my iPhone
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits=
------------------------------
Subject: Pear cider digestive issues
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:25:55 -0800
I have had a few people complain that after drinking some of my pear
cider that they have had shall be say 'problems' in the digestive system.
Only a few out of potentially hundreds of people have mentioned any
problem. I have had the cider tested and it all looks good. After some
research I have found a few other cider makers with similar problems.
Is this an issue with pear juice/cider or is it just my problem?
------------------------------
Subject: Apple Jack
From: James Fishelson <jfishelson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 10:46:47 -0700
I am planning to use one of our 5 gallon batches in an apple jack
(freeze-distilled experiment). Has anyone tried this before, or be able to
provide some pointers (beyond what's in the Proulx book)? I'd be trying
to accomplish it in a 5a Zone, so assume a minimum temperature of around
- 15-20 F. However, I'd love to hear any successes that you've had in
different circumstances (i.e. colder areas or a deep freezer). Thanks a lot.
Best,
James Fishelson
------------------------------
Subject: Franklin County Cider Day(s)
From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:34:45 -0500
www.ciderday.org is the URL to remember.
If you were there you know what a good time
was had by all. The good people of Franklin
County do a stellar job of hosting a
fantastic festival dedicated to hard cider.
The forums were informative and entertaining,
and listening to the banter between
Steve(Farnum Hill) and Nick (Wandering Angus)
over the issue of pasteurization was a
giggle. Did I mention the bottles going
around the room so everyone got a taste?
It's true!
I'm not a travel writer, but these two days
were worth the 20+ hours and 1300 miles of
driving.
I hope to see you next year!
As a postscript, my sister has moved to Grand
Rapids, MI, so I'm hoping to make the great
events that I hear about out there.
Best regards,
Al Yelvington
------------------------------
Subject: Pressing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 23:10:38 +0000
On 04/11/2010 16:14, Bill wrote:
> Andrew, I would be VERY suprised if the press structure you have shown
> on your site with C channel legs could withstand anywhere near 5400psig,
Bill, it is my commercial steel frame Voran press I refer to
http://www.cider.org.uk/voran.jpg. The oil hydraulic gauge reads up to
600 bar (9000 psi). There is a recirculating bypass valve that cuts in
at 360 bar (5400 psi) so that is the maximum permissible pressure. In my
day job I have often worked with low volume hydraulic chromatography
pumps which can deliver against 5000 psi in a fluid delivery system so I
don't regard that as exceptional. But as I said, this is the pressure in
the *internal hydraulic system*, not the pressure applied to the press
bed via the ram and press plate, which is in the order of 138 psi.
> If the cylinders are rigidly fixed to a solid 20" sq surface [see pic
> here:<http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/pressing/1pressload.jpg> ], the
> pressure appears to me to be 40 tons applied to the whole 20 sq inch
> press plate - as above, the force of your fingertip becomes 80,000lbs
> applied to an area of 20 individual square inches, so 80,000/20 = 4000#
> *per sq inch* force exerted on the stack,
That doesn't match up with the maths I was taught at school. If you have
a press plate 20 inches square its area is 400 square inches, not 20. So
your pressure equation becomes 80,000/400 = 200 psi exerted on the
stack. That is consistent with all the literature I have ever read on
pack presses (e.g. Smock and Neubert "Apples and Apple Products",
Schobinger's "Frucht und Gemusesafte", and references therein) which
talk of pressures in the order of 100 - 300 psi, with maximum apple
juice yields around 75%. I truly never heard of a press that could
apply 4000 psi to the stack.
Andrew
nr Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject:
From: denniswaller@comcast.net
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 00:07:56 +0000 (UTC)
Andrew:
Will you hazard a guess to answer this question?? I received no? answers?
from the cider-digest members. I read the section of your book that
compares titratable acid with pH but you indicated it only was relevant
for the apples you grow and they are very different from the apples from
which this cider was made.
****************
Does anyone know the pH of unfermented apple cider comprised of the blended
juice of many apple cultivars--chiefly Red Delicious, Gala, Fuji and Granny
Smith--the manufacturer states has a "titratable acidity" of 0.36%?? ?
I have tried to measure the pH of the cider with small test strips but
can not get a precise result: it appears to be somewhere between 3.5 and
4.0. Since cider makers recommend adjusting the pH until it is at least 3.8
or lower? I want to know whether I should add mallic acid to the cider before
fermentation and if so the quantity that should be added to a 5 gallon batch?
****************
Dennis Waller
------------------------------
Subject: Re: What is the pH of titratable acidity of 0.36%
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:04:57 -0700
Dennis Waller asked:
> Does anyone know the pH of unfermented apple cider comprised of the blended
> juice of many apple cultivars--chiefly Red Delicious, Gala, Fuji and Granny
> Smith--the manufacturer states has a "titratable acidity" of 0.36%?? ?
There is no accurate answer to that question. TA and pH are separate
variables. There is a connection, but there's no functional relation--
you can't compute either one from the other.
The reason we want both is that they tell us different things--for example,
TA tells us about taste; pH tells us how well sulfite will work.
> I have tried to measure the pH of the cider with small test strips but
> can not get a precise result: it appears to be somewhere between 3.5 and
> 4.0...
Two considerations there:
First, you need to be using the narrow-range pH test strips (2.8 to 4.6 in
8 steps is common).
Second, be sure to read the strip in daylight or full-spectrum incandescent
light. Do NOT try to use fluorescent or LED (or Hg-vapor or Na-vapor:-).
> Since cider makers recommend adjusting the pH until it is at least 3.8
> or lower? I want to know whether I should add mallic acid to the cider
> before fermentation and if so the quantity that should be added to a 5
> gallon batch
If you need to drop the pH, yes, malic acid will do it. But unfortunately
there isn't a formula for how much to add! You're caught on the same
dichotomy I mentioned at the start: You're adding acid, so you could
calculate the change in TA from how much you add...but the pH change
isn't neatly predicted. (The pH -will- go down as you add acid, of course;
it's just not possible to give an accurate formula.)
But the first thing is to find out whether you actually need to add acid.
That means getting your pH measurement in order, and you also need to be
able to measure pH to see how much you've reduced it by adding acid.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: apple blend
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:24:44 -0700
Kevin Krula asked about Golden Russet:
>...read that it's a good single
> variety apple but also read that you should have some tart in there too...
What's the acidity? If acidity is good, why not go for the SV? It
could teach you a lot about what GR will do for a blend.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1594
*************************
