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Cider Digest #1645
Subject: Cider Digest #1645, 22 July 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1645 22 July 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1644, 16 July 2011 (denniswaller@comcast.net)
SO2 additions (Andrew Lea)
Re: Pumps (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1644, 16 July 2011
From: denniswaller@comcast.net
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 20:01:11 +0000 (UTC)
I bottle condition cider, but it takes me more like a couple of months to
build up enough pressure. I use approximately a teaspoon of white sugar for
a 750ml Champagne bottle, and I get great carbonation, although not 100%
of the time. I don't do riddling and degorgement (sp? accents?) and you
can detect a faint yeast nose in the bouquet. Not a big one, but there.
I've had still cider without added sugar carbonate in the bottle after 5
years, but I've never pasteurized and never had a gusher or a blown bottle.
Your mileage may vary.
I'm kegging in cornies now, and I like it a LOT better. Not just the work,
but the flavor and mouthfeel are superior. I don't think I'll ever go back
to bottling, except Champagne bottles look so good, I'll probably do a few,
not the 7 cases I did last time. I just threw out all my beer bottles,
after spending endless hours getting the labels off with a bench grinder. 8^)
Best to all,
Michael McClatchey
"Michigan Breakfast" sparkling hard cider
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Michael:
For several years I have been "Pig conditioning" fermented still cider
adding 1/3 of a cup of white sugar to Quoin's 2.5 gallon PET pigs when I
transfer the month old fermented cider into that final container before
drinking it. I usually age the cider three to six months before tapping the
"pig." The "pigs" also contain an expandable plastic bladder inflated by
vinegar and bicarbonate of soda so virtually all of the CO2 produced by that
final conditioning remains dissolved in the cider until it is dispensed
and drunk. I have found this technique much less work than bottling and
the PET containers are strong enough to keep a considerable amount CO2 in
solution so the cider remains carbonated until the pig is empty. Only the
last cup of cider remains undrinkable because it is filled with a heavy
sediment of yeast.
Dennis Waller
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Subject: SO2 additions
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 13:08:06 +0100
On 11/07/2011 17:35, Steve Wood wrote:
> To Andrew Lea:
>
> We have routinely dissolved K2S2O5 in water before addition to juice or
> finished cider. In ciders with pH of around 3.4-3.6, titration of free SO2
> a day or so after addition (in aqueous solution) usually shows (suggests?)
> that nearly 90% of the added SO2 remains unbound (unless there's something
> in the juice/cider that we expected to bind it at once, or unless the pH is
> considerably higher). So I don't get it, unless HSO3 is showing up as an
> artifact in titration for free SO2. I'd love to know if we've been doing
> this wrong for 20 years...
Steve and I have discussed his figures off list and realised there was a
misunderstanding over the difference between addition of SO2 to fresh
juice or to fermented cider. In fact Steve gets about 40% binding of the
SO2 he adds to fresh juice, but only 10% or so of what is later added to
the cider. His data is entirely consistent with the binding spreadsheet
calculations. He's been doing it absolutely right for the last 20 years!!
Just to be certain on the second point, when you do a free SO2 titration
it measures the free SO2 as the sum of both the molecular (SO2) and
ionic (HSO3-) forms. The equilibrium under the conditions of titration
is such that the two forms are inter-convertible and hence both assay
identically.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Re: Pumps
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:44:35 -0600
In CD 1643, Steve Wood commented on the inappropriateness of the March 809
for moving cider around. (Nat West and I had both commented on negative
experiences).
Steve, I agree that the 809 isn't designed for winery-type use. As far as
I can tell, its original design was for a circulating pump for hydronic
systems (home heating with hot water). However, it has been promoted by
several homebrew/wine suppliers as a suitable small pump, so I thought it
worth a try at least. At least one such retailer doesn't identify the
pump well enough to work back to the manufacturer and get the info.
I'll find another, more suitable, use for mine. I should note to anyone
else considering trying out this pump that it also has the problem that
the motor is not enclosed, so you must place it where it won't get wet.
That's not an insurmountable problem, but it's another nuisance.
Next: Charles McGonegal asks about my wish:
> Dick, I know you'd -like- to see a cheaper suitable pump on the market,
> but is it a reasonable expectation? Or is it like wishing for beer priced
> estate cider?
I think it's...well...not entirely unreasonable? :-)
As I noted in my original posting (in CD 1637), cidermakers in Europe
and the UK have access to a variety of pumps at what I consider reasonable
prices--120 to 250 euros. They almost certainly sell in larger numbers
than would be possible in the US, yet they can't be selling "mass
quantities" that would lead to huge manufacturing economies-of-scale.
So yeah, I think it's within reason to ask for a decent small pump for
a few hundred $US.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1645
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