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Cider Digest #1591
Subject: Cider Digest #1591, 30 October 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1591 30 October 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Cornelius Keg modification (Richard Schoeler)
Re: Cultivar questions (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Cider Digest #1590, 27 October 2010 (Scott Heath)
Re: Cider Digest #1590, 27 October 2010 (Terry Bradshaw)
PSI of pressing (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cultivar questions (Bill)
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Subject: Cornelius Keg modification
From: Richard Schoeler <rcschoeler@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 08:13:18 -0700 (PDT)
Thought others using corny kegs for fermentation might be interested in this
mod.. Those attaching an airlock to the lid will not find this post useful,
but if you have an airlock connected to a QD attached to the gas in fitting
as I do, this may be helpful.
I was concerned by the head space in my corny kegs due to the 1 1/4" "IN" tube
so I replaced the tube with a #10 SS washer that is exactly the same outside
diameter, thickness and inside diameter as the flange end of the tube and
supports the poppet perfectly. This has allowed me to reduce head space by 50%
and increase volume by a solid pint.
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Subject: Re: Cultivar questions
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:31:39 -0400
In Cider Digest #1590, 27 October 2010
>Subject: Cultivar questions
>From: John Mott <john@johnmott.com>
>Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:51:01 -0400
>And lastly, I have access to some one-year whips of Foxwhelp, the NA
>version. It's been well documented that this is a different variety
>than the UK Foxwhelp, but I would like to know if it has any redeeming
>qualities as a cider apple. I don't want to waste precious orchard
>space, if not.
John, my experience is don't waste precious orchard space for this false
Foxwhelp! I did a pressing test with it which gave a SG of 1.044 and
titrable acidity of 1.3% as tartaric. This definitely puts the variety in
the category that I call "useless for cider"... If the SG was over 1.060, I
could live with the high acidity and blend it down. Or if the acidity was
0.5%, I could blend it with a high SG - high acidity variety. But with low
SG AND high acidity, better leave it for other usages. It could be useful
for making cider vinegar, or as a cooking apple for example. It is not very
interesting for eating fresh.
Claude
Quebec
PS- I second Peter who wrote: "If you're going to be in Western
Massachusetts, think about coming to Cider Days on November 6+7.
www.ciderday.org"
I will be giving a talk on blending Saturday morning - hope to see many of
you there!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1590, 27 October 2010
From: Scott Heath <scott@fireballfarm.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:14:30 -0700
Peter,
you said:
> Although I am now using an OESCO grinder head on a homemade steel
> stand and SS hopper, I started off with a hand grinder from a Jaffrey
> Press.
So how is that OESCO grinder working for you? I'm considering
getting one and haven't heard from anyone yet about how it rates.
I've used a couple of hammermills and those were great. Does it
compare?
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1590, 27 October 2010
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:44:55 -0400
When Jason says 70 psi, I assumed that to be at the rack. My
understanding is that optimum extraction occurs at 50-100 psi rack
pressure. How is this calculated? Take my press with 20 inch racks,
that's 400 sq inches. Twenty tons of force from a bottle jack (40,000
lbs) gives 100 psi rack pressure. A smaller rack with the same jack
force would give higher pressure, a larger rack less. With my OESCO
commercial grater mill I consistently yield 3 gallons per bushel with
these parameters.
TB
> Subject: Re: psi of pressing
> From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:24:20 -0700
>
> Jason wonders about poor extraction using 70psi - yes that's the
> majority of your problem, you could get higher pressures jumping up and
> down on the stack! My electric/hydraulic press is capable of 3000psi,
> although I find 2000 is sufficient, and 1000-1200 is as much as needed
> with softer fruit from storage. Additionally the size of the rams is a
> consideration, I have double 5" rams and in combination with the 2000psi
> there's about 40 tons of pressure exerted on the stack.
>
> The difference in yields between table varieties and apparently dry
> varieties [not just "cider" apples] is the amount of pressure required
> to burst the cell structure. My take is that the types with generous
> free run juice [fresh Gravenstein being a prime example] seem to have
> much of their liquid between cells rather than within, or much thinner
> cell walls. Any apple is about 80% water, yields beyond that being the
> weight of other components and the solids, so our goal should be at
> least that 80%. Manual hydraulic jacks will never do it.
>
> Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: PSI of pressing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:16:03 +0100
On 27/10/2010 Bill wrote:
>> Jason wonders about poor extraction using 70psi - yes that's the
>> majority of your problem, you could get higher pressures jumping up
>> and down on the stack!
Bill, I think I have to disagree here. I had a home built press to the
Ag-Canada design with an 8 ton manual jack and a 16 inch square bed
which gives about 70 psi by calculation. The juice yields were about
70%. When I upgraded to an electric hydraulic system capable of 138 psi
the yield went up to around 75%. Published data shows that pack press
juice yields get to around 78% at 300 psi and then don't significantly
increase any further (though obviously that does depend on fineness of
grind and bed thickness too).
>> My electric/hydraulic press is capable of 3000psi, although I find
> 2000 is sufficient, and 1000-1200 is as much as needed
>> with softer fruit from storage. Additionally the size of the rams
>> is a consideration, I have double 5" rams and in combination with
>> the 2000psi there's about 40 tons of pressure exerted on the
>> stack.
I don't understand. Let's say you had 40 tons acting over a 20 inch
square bed. That's 40 x 2240 / 20 x 20 or 224 psi. Not 2000! I suspect
you are taking the gauge pressure in your hydraulic lines to be the
pressure over the whole bed? My gauge pressure goes up to 5400 psi
before the bypass valve opens but that's not what is applied to the cheese!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cultivar questions
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:18:07 -0700
John Mott asks about Spartan and Red Delicous. All the McIntosh
offspring are slightly higher acid [lower pH number] than other table
varities, and Spartan will make an acceptable addition to a blend, but
pressing is messier unless they're right off the tree because of the
thicker rubbery skins after even a couple weeks storage [McIntosh being
the worst of the breed]. Reds are useless, the least acid of table
varities and, particularly, very high aromatic levels that make for a
poor flavor and excessive oxidization even as juice. OTOH, the
non-related Golden Delicious works quite well, especially if you can
find some that were culled because of russeting.
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
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End of Cider Digest #1591
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