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Cider Digest #1622
Subject: Cider Digest #1622, 26 March 2011
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1622 26 March 2011
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re:Standard Classification of Apples (Tim Bray)
Re: bag-in-box for small producers? (MeadGuild@aol.com)
Re: Cider Digest #1621, 23 March 2011 (Rick Hastings)
Space Running Out at Eastern U.S. Cidermaker Forum ("Vintage Virginia Apples")
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re:Standard Classification of Apples
From: Tim Bray <tbray@wildblue.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:02:35 -0700
+1 to everything Claude says here. I found out the long, slow, hard,
expensive way that almost everything written about cider apple blending,
based on English or French conditions, doesn't really work well here in
NA. Even in my case, with a climate much more like England than almost
anywhere in NA, the apples just don't follow the script. What has
worked best for me is, as Claude recommends, growing high-sugar apples
and bittersweets; no sharps needed at all. It has taken me about 10
years to figure out which varieties work best here; now I'm reworking a
lot of my trees to get more of those.
Cultural practice is often overlooked when discussing cider apples.
Almost all commercial orchards pick their fruit before it is fully ripe,
which makes a huge difference in the way the cider will ferment and
taste. If you grow your own you can allow them to fully ripen on the
tree, accepting the (mostly economic) drawbacks of this practice as part
of the price for really good cider. You're pretty much going to have to
grow your own bittersweets anyway. Plan on spending a few years
learning when to pick them; it's not as obvious as it might seem.
Finding the right high-sugar, high-flavor, low-acid apple to form the
base of your blend is usually the hardest part here. I recommend
looking into Golden Russet and, especially, King David; these seem to
get favorable results in many parts of North America. Which
bittersweets (and how many) to blend in will depend on your climate,
soil, cultural practice, etc. Yarlington Mill and Muscat de Bernay work
well for me; also Taylor's and Fillbarrel, but those are a little
fussier about timing (picking and pressing). Porter's Perfection also
has performed well for me, especially in years when the Golden Russets
were particularly low-acid. As Claude says, it all comes down to
experience, and I'd emphasize that it's only _local_ experience, because
the growing conditions in North America vary so dramatically from place
to place.
Good luck!
Tim in Albion, CA
> Here, most commercial apple varieties are fairly high in acidity and very
> seldom will it be necessary to add sharp cider apples. Most of the time we
> would need to add more bittersweets or sweets than what we have... In
> general, I find it preferable to plant N.American varieties that have a
> high sugar content, like russets for example, and then these may be blended
> with some low-acid varieties like English bittersweets to lower the acidity
> and add some tannins.
> You need to find how
> it will do at your location and under your cultural practices before you
> can evaluate how good it is going to be for cider.
>
>> Is there a defacto list that I can look at that is considered the industry
>> standard to help me choose my varieties?
> I am afraid the answer to that is NO! It all comes down to experience!
>
> Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Re: bag-in-box for small producers?
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 21:20:22 EDT
Dick Dunn _rcd@talisman.com_ (mailto:rcd@talisman.com) wrote:
> I asked this about six years ago; time to see what's happened...
>
> Are there any suppliers of bag-in-box packaging in the US for
> small-quantity purchasers? If so, please give details!
>
> By "small quantity" I mean maybe a dozen or two bags/boxes at
> an order.
>
> I'd like to see 3-5-10 liter sizes if possible.
>
> Note that I'm asking specifically for availability in the US!
> I know they're readily available in the UK.
Scholle is a bag-in-box manufacturer. Their North American Rep
suggested contacting wineries. He mentioned English Estates at
1-360-260-4170 in Vancouver, WA.
Dick
- ---
Richard D. Adams
Ellicott City, MD 21042
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1621, 23 March 2011
From: Rick Hastings <rick@topoform.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:59:18 -0700
> Subject: bag-in-box for small producers? (revisited)
>
> I asked this about six years ago; time to see what's happened...
>
> Are there any suppliers of bag-in-box packaging in the US for
> small-quantity purchasers? If so, please give details!
>
> By "small quantity" I mean maybe a dozen or two bags/boxes at an order.
> I'd like to see 3-5-10 liter sizes if possible.
>
> Note that I'm asking specifically for availability in the US! I know
> they're readily available in the UK.
> - --
> Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
If there are any, I'd love to know, Dick. I tried to source two dozen
last fall from Jigsaw in the UK, but shipping costs made that approach
prohibitive. Upon their recommendation, I spoke with Smurfit-Kappa in
Canada (great folks), but they had a one-box minimum order of 125 bags
(as I recall), and no leads on any retail distributors. I subsequently
called and/or corresponded with SpaceKraft, Scholle, and RePak. No luck. I
was finally able to source a few samples from Smurfit and CDF Cheertainer,
so I'm trying those out for possible bulk purchase next season.
Seems like an opportunity for a reseller here in the US...maybe someone's
already done it. I'm sold on using the things, and failing a retail source,
perhaps someone here on the Digest could go in on a minimum order split
next time I'm needing some smaller bags.
--
Rick Hastings
Spokane, Washington USA
------------------------------
Subject: Space Running Out at Eastern U.S. Cidermaker Forum
From: "Vintage Virginia Apples" <fruit@vintagevirginiaapples.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 16:54:00 -0400
Join Albemarle CiderWorks April 16th for our 11th annual CiderMaker's Forum!
Craft fermented cider is enjoying a renaissance in Virginia. Ben Watson,
author of Cider Hard and Sweet, and Steve Woods orchardist and cidermaker at
Farnum Hill Cider in New Hampshire, will lead this year's event, joined by
winemaker Jocelyn Kuzelka, and Virginia cidermakers Chuck Shelton of
Albemarle CiderWorks and Diane Flynt of Foggy Ridge Cider. We are already
running out of seats, so hurry up and reserve yours by registering at
http://www.vintagevirginiaapples.com/events.htm.
Draft Forum Agenda
. 10:00 - 10:30 a.m. Introductions, Charlotte Shelton, Vintage
Virginia Apples CEO
. 10:30 - 11:00 a.m. North American Cider History, Ben Watson,
author, Cider Hard and Sweet
. 11:00 a.m. - 12:15 p.m. Cider Apple Varieties, Steve Woods,
Farnum Hill CEO and Cidermaker
. 12:15 - 1:15 p.m. Lunch
. 11:15 - 2:15 p.m. Chemistry in Cidermaking, Jocelyn Kuzelka,
Panacea Wine Consulting Winemaker
. 2:15 - 2:45 p.m. Tour of Albemarle CiderWorks, Chuck Shelton,
Albemarle CiderWorks Cidermaker
. 2:45 - 4:00 p.m. Cider Appreciation and Tasting, Ben Watson
and Diane Flynt, Foggy Ridge Cider CEO and Cidermaker
. 4:00 p.m. Adjourn
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1622
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