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Cider Digest #1567
Subject: Cider Digest #1567, 28 May 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1567 28 May 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Subject: Gel in bottom of carboys - Cider Digest #1566 (Robert Capshew)
Re: Terry Maloney memorial ("Howard, John")
Gel in carboys (Andrew Lea)
Re: Gel in bottom of carboys (WhetstoneCiderWorks) (Claude Jolicoeur)
Redfields (Rob & Mike Miller)
Suggestions needed on bottle fillers and labelers (Rob & Mike Miller)
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Subject: Subject: Gel in bottom of carboys - Cider Digest #1566
From: Robert Capshew <rcapshew@insightbb.com>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 09:46:38 -0400
This year we have had several carboys develop what looks like a
jellyfish an 1" or so thick floating at the bottom of the cider.
Acetorbactor builds a jelly-like mat at the top of the liquid to
obtain air for conversion of alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar).
This jelly-like substance is commonly called "mother of vinegar."
The floating mat often sinks to the bottom when disturbed. You
should be able to smell a vinegar aroma if the mat has formed.
If you test the acidity of the cider by titration you should find that
it is way above 0.6% recommended for most ciders and wines.
Bob Capshew
Southern Indiana
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Subject: Re: Terry Maloney memorial
From: "Howard, John" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 11:29:57 -0400
I was fortunate to attend Terry's memorial service this past weekend.
There was some good music and many heartfelt remarks from friends and
family. It was quite moving. Please contact me off list if you would
like a recording.
John Howard
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Subject: Gel in carboys
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 17:10:15 +0100
Jason wrote:
>
> This year we have had several carboys develop what looks like a
> jellyfish an 1" or so thick floating at the bottom of the cider.
Sounds very much like a pectin gel to me.
> What these carboys have in common is that all were topped up using
> the same batch of cider from the previous year. This topping up cider
> has recently starting developing big chunks of goop in the bottle,
Most likely the top-up cider was high in pectin which has now started to
come out of solution due to the alcohol. This often takes a while to
happen. You can tell if it is pectin rich by taking some of the problem
cider and adding two or three parts pure alcohol to it. If a new clot or
strings form, it's pectin. You can treat with pectic enzyme before
fermentation to prevent this happening. You can try it on the finished
cider as well but often it is not so successful because the enzyme is
inhibited by alcohol. You may just have to do some clever racking.
> which leads me to suspect that we inadvertently inoculated this years batches
> with contaminated cider from the previous year.
If it is pectin, it's not "contaminated" in the microbiological sense.
It's just a physical solubility issue, annoying as it is.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Re: Gel in bottom of carboys (WhetstoneCiderWorks)
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 17:27:48 -0400
In Cider Digest #1566, 23 May 2010
>Subject: Gel in bottom of carboys
>From: WhetstoneCiderWorks <whetstoneciderworks@gmail.com>
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 06:29:09 -0400
> This year we have had several carboys develop what looks like a
>jellyfish an 1" or so thick floating at the bottom of the cider. 2 of the
>carboys contain Kingston Black cider, the other perry. The flavor of cider
>taken from the top of the carboy does not seem to be negatively affected,
>but the blob is a little worrisome.
Does it look like this?
http://picasaweb.google.com/cjoliprsf/Cider#5414425661830796482
If so, this could be a pectic gel. This phenomenon is related to the gel
that happens while keeving. It has occured to me in some occasions at the
end of the fermentation. The clear cider, once racked, will be excellent,
and cristal clear. The drawback, however, is that some of the cider is
lost. If you leave it for a while, the gel will eventually get more compact
and there will be more cider to rack.
One way to avoid this (but it is too late now) is to use some pectinase
before the start of fermentation. The pectinase would work in the apple
pectin in such a way that no such gel could form. Unfortunately, pectinase
doesn't work in presence of alcohol, so it couldn't help curing the present
problem.
Sorry, but I can't understand what you mean by a "goop"... Maybe a picture
could help...
Claude
------------------------------
Subject: Redfields
From: Rob & Mike Miller <ciderguys@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:38:08 -0400
I'd also like to put in a few good words about Redfields. The trees are easy
to train, they're very productive, they're one of the few cider apples that
are not the least bit biennial, and I've never had a speck of fireblight
on my Redfield trees. I wish I could make these comments about most of
the other cider varieties that I have! I have not had much success making
a single varietal cider with this apple, but after reading the comments
posted here, I'll be giving it another try this Fall. Rob Miller
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Subject: Suggestions needed on bottle fillers and labelers
From: Rob & Mike Miller <ciderguys@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:48:11 -0400
I'm looking to purchase a gravity fed bottle filler for my small commercial
fresh and hard cider operation. Does anyone have a suggestion for what
type to get? (4-6 heads is what I'm thinking and this will have to be food
grade and easy to clean). Also, I want to apply small labels on some of
the fresh apples that I sell at my farm, Anyone have a favorite hand-held
applicator? I'll want to have labels custom-made on a regular basis, so
that's an important consideration. Thanks for any suggestions! Rob Miller
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End of Cider Digest #1567
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