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Cider Digest #1595
Subject: Cider Digest #1595, 17 November 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1595 17 November 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Pear cider digestive issues (Dick Dunn)
Pear cider digestive issues (Charles McGonegal)
Pear cider digestive issues (Andrew Lea)
Pear cider digestive issues (John Mott)
RE: Pear cider digestive issues (Mark Ellis)
slides from Claude Jolicoeur talk at Cider Days (Jay Hersh)
Should I add campden tablets to UV treated freshly pressed cider (denniswa...)
Re: clear juice (Bill)
Sources of cider apple trees ("Tom Brown")
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: Pear cider digestive issues
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:38:13 -0700
Mike Faul asked:
> I have had a few people complain that after drinking some of my pear
> cider that they have had shall be say 'problems' in the digestive system.
...etc...
It is a known issue with perry (that is, the drink made entirely from
pears) to the extent that there is a saying, "Perry goes down like velvet,
round like thunder and out like lightning." The cause is sorbitol, and
sensitivity varies a lot from one person to the next.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Pear cider digestive issues
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:58:07 -0600
Mike, pears have varying amounts of sorbitol in them. That's why they don't
ferment as dry as apples. I usually find that it's 2-3 brix worth. I've
seen text figures for some perry pears that would make sorbitol 75% of the
dissolved solids. I've fermented Asian pears and would up with so little
alcohol that I presume that sorbitol out weighed the fermentable sugars.
Some people are sensitive to sorbitol. Either directly, or because their
gut flora make noxious crude when it ferments the sorbitol.
But you might try marketing your perry as high fiber.
Sent from my iPhone
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits
(262)496-7508
------------------------------
Subject: Pear cider digestive issues
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:44:58 +0000
Mike wrote:
> I have had a few people complain that after drinking some of my pear
> cider that they have had shall be say 'problems' in the digestive system.
> Only a few out of potentially hundreds of people have mentioned any
> problem. I have had the cider tested and it all looks good. After some
> research I have found a few other cider makers with similar problems.
> Is this an issue with pear juice/cider or is it just my problem?
Unfortunately it is a known issue with pear juice / cider due to its
high sorbitol levels (also found in plums and prunes at high levels).
This naturally occuring polyol is not digested by gut microflora and so
tends to have a laxative effect. The exact effect depends a lot on the
individual. All you can do is to warn your customers. Here in the EU at
least, you will find warning labels on sugar-free chewing gums which are
sorbitol-sweetened.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford,UK
------------------------------
Subject: Pear cider digestive issues
From: John Mott <john@wineimports.ca>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:05:23 -0500
Hi Mike,
Digestive issues with perry may be caused by the presence of
sorbitol, which is an unfermentable sugar that ocurs in pears, but not
apples to my knowledge.
/John Mott
Kimberley, ON
- ------------------------------
Subject: Pear cider digestive issues
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:25:55 -0800
I have had a few people complain that after drinking some of my pear
cider that they have had shall be say 'problems' in the digestive system.
Only a few out of potentially hundreds of people have mentioned any
problem. I have had the cider tested and it all looks good. After some
research I have found a few other cider makers with similar problems.
Is this an issue with pear juice/cider or is it just my problem?
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Pear cider digestive issues
From: Mark Ellis <mark@zymurgia.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:00:08 +1300
G'day Mike,
The answer to this delicate question is unfortunately frustrating.
I assume you are using dessert pears like Bartlett?
Pears have significant amounts of sorbitol which is sensitive to a large
amount of the population, but you will need to consume a reasonable
amount say 4-5 pints to experience the "Thunder and lightning"
I am mainly a Perrymaker here in Oz.
Traditional Perry pears and wildings have nowhere near the levels of
sorbitol.
AFAIK there are no methods to convert sorbitol to a fermentable form.
You may wish to consider blending the pear juice with a neutral cooker
apple juice like Granny Smith, which is almost undetectable amongst the
pear aromatics and will dilute the problem down to just thunder and no
lightning!
All the best
Mark E. in Oz
------------------------------
Subject: slides from Claude Jolicoeur talk at Cider Days
From: Jay Hersh <jsh@doctorbeer.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 15:07:11 -0500
my wife and I attended Claude Jolicoeur's talk about blending. He gave a
URL where he said he'd be putting the slides up but when we went to it to
try to grab them the site didn't exist. Perhaps we wrote it down wrong.
Does anyone associated with Cider Day or who attended know the correct URL
or have a copy of Claude's slides that they could send me?
Thanks,
Jay Hersh
------------------------------
Subject: Should I add campden tablets to UV treated freshly pressed cider
From: denniswaller@comcast.net
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 00:09:57 +0000 (UTC)
A local grower is offering fresh, pressed sweet cider made primarily from
Johnagold apples with a small percentage of other cultivars. The pH is
3.6 and the SG is 1.056? but I assume the tannic acid concentration is
low. He insists the cider has been processed with UV but not pasteurized.
Question , should I add one campden tablet per gallon one day before I
pitch the yeast? I don't know how effective his UV system is and recently
I lost a 5 gallon batch of cider purchased from another grower because of
bacterial contamination. Expressed another way, does UV treatment reduce
the bacterial content of fresh sweet cider sufficiently that it can be
used without adding Campden?
I use good sterile techniques, sanitize all the? vessels and implements? and
dried yeast so I don't think I introduced the contamination. That? was
the first batch of cider I have lost through contamination in two years.
DennisWaller@comcast.net=20
------------------------------
Subject: Re: clear juice
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 11:33:13 -0800
From Cornell University re clarification of raw juice:
<http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4327115.html>.
Honey works exceptionally well for me. I use 1/4 - 1/2 cup diluted
with an equal amount of hot water to thin it out to allow mixing in per
a 5 gallon carboy, which will cause the juice to "drop clear" within 24
hours. I have also found that clean "opalescent" juice from fresh
picked apples or pears [as opposed to apples from long or poor storage
or over-ripe pears] clarifies itself well by the end of the fermentation
process without any interventions.
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Sources of cider apple trees
From: "Tom Brown" <zeraat@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 01:35:25 -0600
Hello Cider Digest
I am planting a you pick peach and apple orchard in the spring and want to
plant these cider varieties as well. I am having a hard time finding these
trees. Sometimes I find them with specialty home fruit garden suppliers but
usually the trees are quite expensive ($20/tree or thereabouts) too much for
me for this quantity when I pay $6.50 / tree for other varieties.
So I am looking for bare root trees of about ½? diameter on M7 rootstock. I
could also be persuaded to purchase some pear trees for perry as well.
Variety Name
Rootstock
# of trees
Bramley's Seedling
M7
10
Brown Snout
M7
10
Brown's Apple
M7
10
Dabinett
M7
25
Golden Russet
M7
10
Binett Rouge
M7
10
If any of you know of some commercial nurseries who also sell these things
then connecting me to them will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and kind regards
Tom Brown
Meadowlark Farm
Rose Hill, Kansas
email: zeraat@sbcglobal.net
skype: zeraat
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1595
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