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Cider Digest #1574
Subject: Cider Digest #1574, 22 July 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1574 22 July 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
waste yeast and sediment ("Jeremy Kent")
N, Fermentation Speed and Fruit Age (Andrew Lea)
Redfield and blending (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: waste yeast and sediment
From: "Jeremy Kent" <Sheep@kent9999.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:14:25 +0100
Dear All,
Is there any harm in spreading the waste Sediment from the bottom of the
vat after fermentation into the orchard?
Would this waste upset the trees? ie stop them from producing fruit?
Any thoughts on this....
thanks
Jeremy Kent
Herefordshire, UK.
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Subject: N, Fermentation Speed and Fruit Age
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:31:44 +0100
Claude wrote:
> I am coming back to this because I am currently reading "Fermented Beverage
> Production" - by the way, this book is not exactly easy vacation reading
> for the beach...
> Anyway, in page 19 of 2nd edition (this is not the chapter on cider by
> Andrew, but chapter 1 on fermentable extracts by Paterson, Swanston and
> Piggot) it is written:
> "It is commonly believed that juices from dessert apples contain more amino
> acids than those from cider apples and that juices produced with apples
> from younger trees have higher contents than those from older trees. Amino
> acids contents of juices decrease with storage, largely as a result of the
> Maillard browning that takes place. This is in addition to the enzymatic
> reactions in which coupling of fruit phenols to polyphenols is promoted by
> the oxidative action of phenol oxidases."
> The second sentence immediately made me think of this discussion we had
> 2-1/2 years ago - if amino acids content decrease with apple storage, this
> would correlate with my observation that stored apples ferment slowlier.
> But what is the Maillard browning?
> And I must admit I didn't really understand the 3rd sentence... Does it
> mean something in relation with this subject?
Hope you haven't been misled by what my colleagues wrote, Claude. It is
*apple juices* which lose amino acids by the Maillard reaction, not
*apples*. The sentence refers to stored apple juice concentrate or
bottled juice, not to apples themselves. The Maillard reaction is a
chemical reaction which takes place between amino groups and reducing
sugars (eg fructose and glucose) to form 'Amadori compounds' which
eventually degrade to coloured or flavourful compounds. By so doing the
amino acids themselves are lost.
This is a major cause of the brown colour of apple juice concentrate. As
far as I know it does not happen in the living fruit which still retains
its cellular organisation and where amino acids and sugars do not come
into contact in an uncontrolled way - though I might keep an open mind
on that in long-stored fruit simply for lack of evidence. It does
certainly take place in dried apple slices (and dried egg and milk and
many other dried or semi-dry foods).
The polyphenol oxidase reaction is something else, which occurs in the
fresh juice after cell disruption as it is expressed from the apple -
you will have noticed it yourself - and is the reason that fresh apple
juice is brown not white (unless pressed in the total absence of air).
The phrase "...coupling of fruit phenols to (give) polyphenols.." is
slightly misleading in that it is the random oxidative coupling of
native colourless polyphenols to form even more complex polyphenols
(mediated by phenol oxidases) which is the origin of the colour but this
is something of a semantic point!
And I agree that's certainly not a book to take to the beach (unless you
are a real geek!).
Andrew
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Redfield and blending
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:10:46 -0600
In the last Cider Digest I cautioned that Redfield, for all its great
characteristics, ought to be blended.
I had a reply from Field Maloney (Terry and Judith's son) that the most
recent West County Redfield cider is -not- blended; it is 100% varietal.
And so: I am surprised, and I stand corrected(!), and I feel that this
is even more of an accolade to Terry and West County's cider, that he/
they could make a varietal of Redfield and not have problems getting the
cider in balance.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1574
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