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Cider Digest #1578
Subject: Cider Digest #1578, 25 August 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1578 25 August 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
mold identification (Doug and Talea Fincke)
Re: Cider Digest #1577, 21 August 2010 (edwdollx2@aol.com)
RE: Cider Digest #1577, 21 August 2010 (Rob & Mike Miller)
Re: cider won't drop clear (Claude Jolicoeur)
Apple Scab in Michigan (joseph margevicius)
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Subject: mold identification
From: Doug and Talea Fincke <mporchards@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:46:52 -0400
I made a large batch of cider(over 200 gal) this past winter and fermented
it all in a large stainless tank. After primary was over, racked it like I
always do into clean glass 15 gal demijohns. Most look fine...but a few,
although clear, have a thin layer of whitish film similar to corn starch on
top. The smell is similar to something you'd find in a paint store. Last
time this happend the cider turned out fine, but only after aging for at
least a year did it lose the off smell. Does anyone know what this substance
is?
- --
Doug and Talea Fincke
Montgomery Place Orchards
Annandale-on-Hudson, NY
845.758.6338
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1577, 21 August 2010
From: edwdollx2@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:41:08 -0400 (EDT)
Re: fireblight resistance
The degree of resistance to fireblight in rootstocks is quite variable,
just as it is in the clones for eating or cider. there are numerous lists
that give degrees of resistance of these. But I think that reference in this
post was inquiring about some resistance in trees that have been infected
with this disease. I have never been able to get a plant pathologist to
admit to the concept of some developed resistance after a severe infection.
But 14 years of observations on my Iowa State University experimental
apple trees and numerous observations in commercial Illinois orchards,
infections frequently are less intense in the year following heavy blight,
while nearby trees have moderate to severe infections.
It continues to be a major problem for both hobby and commercial growers, and
prevention through variety and stock selection along with timely sprays of
effective rates make it a little easier now than 30 (plus or minus)years ago.
Chris Doll , retired extension and hobby fruit guy.
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1577, 21 August 2010
From: Rob & Mike Miller <ciderguys@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:25:37 -0400
Resistance to Fireblight
I have also wondered whether some varieties in my orchard have developed
a resistance to fireblight after getting doused with it for a number of
years. For years I battled FB, particularly in three rows of Ellis Bitter.
One summer, in the midst of an emergency pruning of FB that had spread
throughout the orchard, my 15 year-old son said "Dad, why don't you just
pull these crappy trees out." So I thought about it for about 5 minutes
and we then proceeded to pull out all of the fully-grown Ellis Bitter trees.
(On rare occasions teenagers can show some wisdom!)
The incidence of FB throughout the orchard dropped dramatically in the
years that have followed the removal of the Ellis Bitters. While I still
get some now and then in the susceptible varieties, several varieties that
were once prone to it, most notably Kingston Black, have not developed it
again at all. So it may be that I pulled the main source of the FB when I
dumped the Ellis Bitters, but I think some of the KB and other trees also
built up a resistance after being exposed to it for several years in a row.
My trees are on a mix of M7 and G30 rootstocks, and I have not observed
that either rootstock makes any real difference in the health of the tree.
(The only real difference I have observed between those two rootstocks is
that trees on G30 require more staking than trees on M7s.)
Rob Miller, Distillery Lane Ciderworks
------------------------------
Subject: Re: cider won't drop clear
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:29:03 -0400
In Cider Digest #1577, 21 August 2010:
>Subject: cider won't drop clear
>From: Bradley Hunter <hunter@midcoast.com>
>After years ( decades ) of simply letting time clear my ciders, I
>finally have a batch that just refuses to drop clear. Admittedly, I
>sometimes get inpatient and add some form of fining agent to get the
>cider to the brilliant stage of clarity , but that's only after aging
>alone has got it nearly there.
>....
>I have no problem adding a fining agent at this point but I'm just
>curious as to why I'm experiencing this situation. Any thoughts as to
>why and any suggestions what the preferred clarifier might be ? I have
>on hand ,currently, Sparkolloid which I usually use on my wines and
>meads or Isinglass which I usually use in my beers.
Hello Brad,
The question of clearing is quite unpredictable - it may have to do with a
slight change in content of pectin on this particular year. Maybe the
apples were just a bit more or less ripe than usual. But, pretty hard to
say for sure.
Is the fermentation now complete? Where is SG? How long ago did the
fermentation stop? Maybe it just needs a bit more time! I have had ciders
that kept on fermenting slowly for a full year and didn't clear until
November (i.e. after 13 months).
I sometimes (but very rarely, like you) have a batch that refuses to clear.
Most of the times, Sparkalloid does work in that case, but I have seen it
being useless also...
Sorry, I am afraid I am not being very useful...
Claude
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Subject: Apple Scab in Michigan
From: joseph margevicius <jmargevicius@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:37:49 +0000
I have several dozen small heritage and cider apples planted in a clearing
on my property in Lapeer County (southeastern) Michigan. The land all around
me is quite rural and wooded, there are many wild apples and crabs growing
in the immediate vicinity. Last year, and even more so this year, my trees
have been battling a serious case of apple scab. I have been spraying more
or less all season with fruit tree sprays that contain fungicide, as well
as several doses of Captan. Last year, I lost a nice Golden Russet to the
disease. This year, almost all my apples have been infected to one extent or
another, some seriously. Aside from very small fruit (if any survives at all)
the trees look sickly and weak. It looks like there are simlar symptoms on
some of the pears, cherries, and peach trees around here as well. I noticed
that many of the wild apples and crabs around us also have the same symptoms,
and I suspect there is some infestation coming from that source. Even some
of the non fruit trees around here look to have the same symptoms.
I am not a professional orchardist, only a home enthusiast who raises
apples press for my own cider, so I am not familiar with the types of
steps a professional fruit farmer would take to protect his orchard from
this disease. It seems like spraying only temporarily alleviates to a small
extent. What other steps should I be taking? Any other helpful hints would
be appreciated.
Thanks
Joe Margevicius
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End of Cider Digest #1578
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