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Cider Digest #1589
Subject: Cider Digest #1589, 23 October 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1589 23 October 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Grinding and Pressing (WhetstoneCiderWorks)
bladder press (Bear Swamp Orchard)
Re: apple grinders (Bill)
Crusher selection ("Tom Klepfer")
Film Mold (Robert Kuntz)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Grinding and Pressing
From: WhetstoneCiderWorks <whetstoneciderworks@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:41:35 -0400
On Oct 19, 2010, at 2:41 AM, Dick Dunn wrote:
> But that's more a function of the apples themselves than of the milling
> consistency. I can mill (say) Cortland or Haralson, and it's as you say:
> the juice is running out as I load the press. I mill Nehou and get just
> a trickle of free-run. I mill KB and get nothing until I start to turn
> the press down. And yet I'll get similar yields from each in the end,
> or if anything, better yield from apples which don't yield up their
> juice so quickly.
I also find that dessert fruit tends to produce much more juice prior
to pressing but in the end I rarely end up with more juice from cider fruit
than dessert fruit. This is a fact I find enduringly frustrating since
conventional wisdom is that the fibrous nature of cider fruit allows for a
higher rate of extraction, and I pay a great deal more for my bittersweets
and bittersharps than other apples. I run everything through my grinder
twice, ending up with what I imagine to be a decently fine grind, then
press in a rack and cloth press. I wonder if my problem isn't a lack of
pressure at the press- in theory I can exert 70 p.s.i. using 2 hydraulic
jacks, but I never know how hard I have to pump on the handle of the jack
to achieve rated capacity.
Pressing Kingston Blacks this year, which were very small and dry, I
was only able to get a miserable 2 gallons/bushel, which I don't think even
equals 50% yield. The most I have ever gotten from cider apples is 2.6
ga./bu.- this after running the fruit through a garbage disposal,creating
essentially apple sauce, then pressing in thin cheeses at a nominal 70
p.s.i. as slowly as I could bear. When I read about 70% yield I gnash my
teeth and pull my hair and dream of the day when I too will achieve this
phenomenal percentage- by my calculations this would equate to a stunning
???3.6 ga./bu.
If nothing else, this pursuit gives me a reason to get out of bed
every morning!
Jason MacArthur
Whetstone Cider Works
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Subject: bladder press
From: Bear Swamp Orchard <apples@bearswamporchard.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 07:53:48 -0400
"But what is that yield? (in gallons out per pound in, or whatever)
As I said (approximately), I'm seeing bladder presses advertised with
yields in the low 50% range, where I'm now in the mid-60%s with my basket
press with modifications. (I'm measuring weight/weight.) I can see that
a hyrdopress could get the same yield as an UNmodified basket press using
the stock grinder that several of them have."
Dick,
I'm not sure the bladder presses are as inefficient as you think, or have
heard. I see yield being a factor of a number of things, clearly the press
included. With what I have now, and others that I have seen, it seems that
it is the grinder/grinding. and the particular cultivar of apple that have
had the most effect on my pressing yield at my scale. Currently, weight
by weight, I get approximately 55-65% yield with most of it being about
60%. The range is the result of different apples I have, and the yield
from them can change year to year depending on growing conditions. For
something in the small/mid range, that is easy to operate, space efficient,
and easy to clean, I am happy with it so far.
Happy pressing,
Steve Gougeon
Bear Swamp Orchard
apples@bearswamporchard.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: apple grinders
From: Bill <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 08:26:11 -0700
As a custom mill operator for the past 30 years, I agree and disagree
with Bob LaBelle. The grind of the pulp is a critical factor, but it can
be too fine as well as too coarse. Custom work has required attention to
efficiency in order to survive making a living from it, 50-70% wouldn't
do it. My yields are pretty consistently one liter from 3 pounds [80%+]
of fresh picked or stored fruit of any variety using the home made
equipment shown here: <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/pressing/>. This
equipment is an elaboration of the designs shown in the AgCanada
booklet, and the hammermill shown therein need't be really expensive:
<http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/ag-can/ag-book.htm#4>
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Crusher selection
From: "Tom Klepfer" <tomklepfer@hctc.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:08:17 -0600
Our recent discussion about crushers mirrors that of presses started by Dick.
There are entry level commercial models ( Happy Valley and fingerslicing
Italian roller types like I have, among others) that leave a lot to be
desired, homemade wood drum and screw scratters, and modified garbage
disposals and garden shredders. But from there the next step up in quality
and output seems to be imported commercial units that run over 1200 USD.
Is there anything out there I'm missing? I really don't have the time to
make anything from scratch... or crank away by hand for hours on end.
I'm beginning to think the best bet for quality minded cheapskates may be
a stainless disposal modified to spit out pieces larger than applesauce,
if that's indeed possible, or a garden shredder with the working parts
coated with something like food grade epoxy paint. Some shredders are built
like the hammermills that Robert recommends, like my old Garden Way model,
but I just don't think I could coat it sufficiently enough to prevent iron
taint of the juice. The 4-cycle exhaust might give an odd flavor as well!
Is anyone working on getting the famous Shark imported to N America?
Maybe I just need to motorize my crusher, wear chainmail gloves like
meatcutters use, and quit worrying about it. Or spend 1200 bucks.
Tom
------------------------------
Subject: Film Mold
From: Robert Kuntz <bodyelectric2@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:39:00 -0600
Hi all,
I recently filled my 55 gallon barrell with about 52.5 gallons of this
year's crush, and finished about 3 weeks ago. It was all sulfited before
yeast addition to 50 ppm. I took a break, and planned on refilling this
weekend.
In the meantime, it warmed up a bit...and my cider has developed what looks
like a film mold on top - looks almost oily, and well, white filmy stuff on
top. It's not as thick as what is in Andrew Lea's photo on his website -
very thin, almost see through.
What is a good way to knock down the mold? I added sulfite again to the
tune of 50 ppm before topping off later this weekend. I've already been
considering buying a filter for the spring and racking into kegs, but I'd
like to not have a flavor impact in the meantime.
Is there anything else I can do in the meantime that might work?
Thanks,
Robert
Golden, CO
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End of Cider Digest #1589
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