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Cider Digest #1518
Subject: Cider Digest #1518, 6 July 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1518 6 July 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
spanish ciders (PHILL PALMER)
Re: Cider Digest #1517, 3 July 2009 (Josh Klatt)
press ("derek bisset")
Cider Digest: Anyone using a "shop press" for a cider press? (Alan Yelvington)
Promalic and Cation Exchange Resins (jbrett@eastlink.ca)
Re: Anyone using a "shop press" for a cider press? (Terry Bradshaw)
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Subject: spanish ciders
From: PHILL PALMER <filpalmer@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:21:29 +0000
derek,
I haven?t any experience of Spanish ciders myself but a
friend of mine, dave matthews of the welsh perry and cider society has written
several articles on the subject, some of which can be found here :
http://www.welshcider.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=93&Itemid=
100
phill
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1517, 3 July 2009
From: Josh Klatt <josh@joshklatt.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:37:46 -0400
Hey Derek-- I was in the Basque part of Spain a couple years ago and
got to try some great cider. It's true that the cider tradition
there may predate the english and french. Their language is ancient
and has no roots in latin or greek-- so their cider making has
probably been around for a while too... The style is dry and still.
I don't think this is the ideal time of year to visit a
"Sagardotegia" (cidery) but they may be open... I think the season
starts in January and lasts a couple months.
I visited this one and even brought a case of cider home to the
states with me.
http://www.infotres.com/rezola/
Here's a few pictures of mine: http://joshklatt.com/cider/
Here's a couple videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHkc90SXOvU
http://www.youtube.com/user/pesky3d#play/uploads/1/d7kHesR7xHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_BByP7IKcM
(I'm the guy in the black hat!)
I forgot how much it was, but you pay a flat rate and that includes
several courses (including some salty codfish and a huge piece of
meat) and most importantly, all the cider you can drink! You sit at
huge picnic tables with everybody else and when somebody gets thirsty
they yell "Txotx!" (pronounced "choch") and a line forms at one of
the barrels. Somebody opens up the spigot and everybody takes turns
catching cider in their glasses. We got there on a great night-- a
few friends of the owner were there and we tagged along with them to
the back room and sampled cider from a bunch of different barrels---
each barrel was totally different!
People are super cool and laid back in the basque country--- after
dinner at Rezola, people had no problem twisting up doobies and
smoking them right there at the tables! Imagine that scene at a
cidery anywhere in non-basque france or england!
Have fun!
Josh Klatt
> Subject: sidra
> From: "derek bisset" <derek_bisset@shaw.ca>
> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 19:06:07 -0700
>
> I haven't seen any discussion on Spanish cider. Has anyone done an
> exploration of the Donostia or Asturias areas ?
> Normandy and the West of England are well known and discussed
> because we
> seem to be growing their apples in N America and creating their
> style of
> cider . particularly English .
> From what I can gather it seems likely that cider apples may well have
> come from Spanish origins but the style of cider seems to be
> different.
------------------------------
Subject: press
From: "derek bisset" <derek_bisset@shaw.ca>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:12:45 -0700
Nat asked about using a shop press as an apple press.
I have used a 30 ton metal frame shop press for several years . I has
the advantage that the rack support is adjustable up and down and will
accommodate various rack heights. I find this useful when I have only a
small pressing to do . It has the disadvantage that the stroke length of
the jack is fairly short although the frame is large enough that a longer
stroke jack could be fitted . I use a manual jack although it is possible
to go all hydraulic or air for pressure at considerably more expense..
I have used a square of thick plywood 24 in X 1 in as a base plate which
supports a stainless steel sheet metal juice tray. The tray is large anough
that a second stack can be prepared while the first is pressing .
The whole setup cost less than $300 here in the Vancouver area.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest: Anyone using a "shop press" for a cider press?
From: Alan Yelvington <alany@semparpac.org>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:52:53 -0400
Nat,
I've done the conversion, and I recommend that you look over the photos
here:
http://www.new.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2010307&id=1081556789&l=0b036cc080
I need to retain the full functionality of the arbor press, so the
conversion is simply a reconfiguration with a few parts set aside for
pressing season.
I bought parts from Harbor Freight, Good Nature, and a local hardware store.
I'm going to set it up soon and do a trial on soaked bath towels to get
a before and after sense of moisture retention (by weight). I do dry
weight, and the pressed weight after soaking.
Time and gumption permitting, I'll be doing up some drawings to help
folks along if they are interested.
Al Yelvington
Russell, PA
------------------------------
Subject: Promalic and Cation Exchange Resins
From: jbrett@eastlink.ca
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:29:56 -0400
I'm responding belatedly to two postings on the Digest.
Posting one from Terry Maloney inquiring about use of Promalic . We tried
it as part of a series of trials to determine ways to soften acidity. To
make a long story short, though promalic does soften acidity, we did not
see any unique benefit to justify the high cost. Also, promalic has to
be stored under specific conditions and has a limited shelf life. Of the
trials we did, the best results (and the most economical) we achieved were
using a product called Biolees. Scott Labs is the distributor. Another
product that seemed very effective, and would be worth further trials,
was a yeast strain called Uvaferm SG, manufactured by either Laffort or
Lallemand and also distributed by Scott. In our trial with Uva ferm SG
we let the fermentation go too far and the yeast (or some other factor
unidentified) converted most of the malic acid to lactic acid and alcohol,
if I remember correctly. We determined this by Chromograph test. So I
think both of these products are worth further testing.
Posting two, from Andrew Lee if I remember correctly, inquiring about use
of Cation Exchange Resins. We used a cation exchange resin in a trial
to lower copper levels. It was effective but the drawback is that the
"exchange", if I remember correctly, is copper for an OH molecule or some
other molecule which has the effect of raising the pH. So when you are
using the cation exchange resin you have to monitor your pH constantly
to make sure you don't raise the pH beyond an acceptable level. Again,
if I remember correctly, different cation exchange resins are formulated
to work within different pH ranges. I'm sorry I can't be more specific and
precise on this but I am emailing from a remote location without access
to my notes on the trial. Hope my preliminary observations are of some use.
John Brett Tideview Cider Nova Scotia
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Anyone using a "shop press" for a cider press?
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:29:56 -0400
I use a shop press as the main part of my small commercial operation. I
made a plate that sits on the bottom cross member from the base of one
of those giant satellite dishes. A jack sits on that and presses on a
bed on which sits my press box with cheeses and all. The top of the
cheeses press on the top plate of the shop press with a second jack
where a typical press jack is. These two 20-ton jacks give me 20 tons
of pressure on my 20 inch racks for a press of 100 psi. Works great,
every rack holds a bushel with five racks per squeeze, I get 15-17
gallons a whack. My commercial grinder certainly helps with the efficiency.
I made guides for the bottom bed from pipe and rod that keep the box
rising fairly evenly- welded rod to the legs of the press and pipe to
the bed so they slide within one another. Without that (and even with
it if you aren't paying attention) the box will tilt and you can have a
wicked mess on your hands.
I don't know why more people don't do this, shop presses can be found
pretty cheap and the structural welds and steel are designed for what
you're trying to do here. A homemade wood of steels frame will often be
weaker, more dangerous, and less efficient. I squeeze almost 1000
gallons a year on mine, one day a week for six weeks. The pics on my
website are pretty out-of date and show and older cart system of holding
the box, but you'll get the idea. I need to get pics updated this season...
http://www.lostmeadowvt.com/juice/mill.htm
Terry B
> Has anyone refashioned one of these:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32879
>
> or these:
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_604_604
>
> or similar, to press their cider? It seems like you'd just need to weld on a
> wider plate at the bottom to hold your catchbasin, then supply your own
> racks, basin, cloths, etc, for far cheaper than a Goodnature.
>
> My timber frame jack was creaking a lot and had a couple ominous-sounding
> cracks during the last of last year's pressings so I'm trying to plan ahead.
>
> Thanks,
> - -Nat West, Portland Oregon
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End of Cider Digest #1518
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