Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1498
Subject: Cider Digest #1498, 27 April 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1498 27 April 2009
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: What would you plant this spring (Tim Bray)
What would you plant this spring (Revisited) ("Charles McGonegal")
Cider Trees Available (Jim Cummins)
Time to bottle? (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #1497, 24 April 2009 (Steury and Noel)
Pollination (Andrew Lea)
Cider Digest #1497 ("Ray Blockley")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: What would you plant this spring
From: Tim Bray <tbray@wildblue.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:39:04 -0700
My Winter Bananas do not make good cider. The apples grow too large too
fast, leading to low sugar levels and little flavor, producing a thin
and insipid cider. I've been disappointed in all the blends I used them in.
My favorite Russets are Golden and Roxbury. Both are quite vigorous and
productive, and make a good base for cider blends. Golden might have
the edge for cider, having more sugar and less acid than Roxbury, also
it is smaller and easier to grind. Roxburies keep better and are more
of an all-purpose apple.
Ashmead's Kernel can also be an excellent apple in cider blends. I made
a great cider two years ago with Ashmead's, Cox's, and Taylor's (a
bittersweet). Ashmead's has a rich flavor, some of which can survive
fermentation, and plenty of sugar in good years. A great eating apple
as well, but doesn't keep.
Wickson doesn't produce well for me, but others have great success with
it and the cider is reportedly excellent. I think my problem is a
combination of poor climate (cool summers) and bad planting (too close
to Redwoods).
Hewe's Virginia Crab made a great cider the one year it produced enough
for me. The apples are so small that it takes a lot of trees to make
enough for a batch. (I have four, on standard rootstock, planted in
2001.) Also it ripens very early, before any other cider fruit is
ready, so there's not much to blend it with. If you have room for at
least six trees, though, you might make a terrific varietal cider from it.
Cheers,
Tim in Albion, CA
> Subject: What would you plant this spring (Revisited)
> From: Frank Stevens <moose49017@comcast.net>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:58:06 +0000 (UTC)
>
> First off I would like to thank Ben & Charles for responding to my first
> post. Things came up with the family and my computer which kept me from
> replying.
>
> Spring is here in Michigan and once again the desire to plant some trees
> is gnawing at me. Once again, I am late in ordering any and some places
> are already closed for 2009 or out of the more popular varieties. But I'm
> going to plant something this year!
>
> Ben, Opalescent was one on my list. Besides it's nice features I had read
> a story that it was first found in Michigan. Winter Banana I have read
> about and believe it is available somewhat locally. I will look further
> into it and Gold Rush which I believe ripens later than most and would
> help spread out the season. Kerr Crab I like because of it's parentage
> Dogolo x Haralson. Both mentioned as good for cider.
>
> Charles, Were you thinking of Harrison or Haralson? Both mentioned for cider.
> Besides the Hewe's Virgina crab (Thomas Jefferson's favorite) which you
> mentioned, I was also looking at Wickson crab. Anybody have any experience
> with them? Pippin and E. Spitzenburg are the parents.
>
> Anybody have a favorite Russet? Grimes, Roxbury, Zabergau Reinette ?
> Has anyone used Asmead's Kernel for a cider apple? And finally is there a
> true Redstreak available in the USA and what do you like or dislike about it.
> As you can see....I would like to plant them all!
>
> Frank
------------------------------
Subject: What would you plant this spring (Revisited)
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@aeppeltreow.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:23:05 -0500
From: Frank Stevens <moose49017@comcast.net>
Charles, Were you thinking of Harrison or Haralson? Both mentioned for cider.
Besides the Hewe's Virgina crab (Thomas Jefferson's favorite) which you
mentioned, I was also looking at Wickson crab. Anybody have any experience
with them? Pippin and E. Spitzenburg are the parents.
Frank, we have Haralson here, but the ones that come from over by MN taste
much better. I don't think you'll get cold enough where you are for really
good Haralson.
I did indeed mean Harrison - recovered in recent years by Tom Burford. I
think the main source is Vintage Virginia Apples.
I also have Wickson, but have mixed feelings about it. I know Al Etter
suggested it for sparkling cider - but at my site, it's just not what I have
in mind for cider. It bears young and heavily. It's quite pretty. But it
doesn't develop the bragged about Brix levels and (to me) has a taste of
baked squash. I _really_ prefer Hewes.
I use Ashmeads, Blenheim Orange, Margil, Cox's Orange, English Golden Russet
and Roxbury in blends. I recently tried a varietal Albemarle Pippin cider
from the nearly open Albemarle Ciderworks that was really quite pleasant.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Trees Available
From: Jim Cummins <rootstocks@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:59:44 -0400
[Janitor's note: Jim cleared this posting with me. I feel the difficulty
of finding true cider varieties in the US justifies a "semi-commercial"
posting now and then. I'm open to similar short notes from other
nurseries as long as they're focused on cider varieties. --Dick]
We have for May delivery cider varieties on semidwarfing Malling 7 or
Geneva 30 -- trees either Feathered grade or 9/16:
Breakwell's Seedling/M.7
Brown's Apple/G.30
Chisel Jersey/M.7
Kingston Black/G.30
Somerset Redstreak/M.7
Stembridge Cluster/M.7
Sweet Coppin/M.7
Wickson /G.30
plus a few 7/16 whips of
Foxwhelp (Faux)/M.7
Marin Oufrey/M.7
Yarlington Mills/G.30
CUMMINS NURSERY
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 227 6147
rootstocks@gmail.com
------------------------------
Subject: Time to bottle?
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:00:07 +0100
Casey wrote:
>
> As a novice I have my first batch of cider from last fall still in its' 5
> gal carboy that I racked off its lees a bit too soon and topped off with 1%
> sugar solution that raised the specific gravity a bit. It is finally back
> down to 1.009 as we have had a couple of nice warm spring days here in
> Northwestern Oregon. On the warmer days I have noted consistent very small
> bubbles. I seem to recall from the CD archives that very small bubbles
> indicate malolactic fermentation. I have observed small bubbles on the
> warmer days and the fermentation lock has been releasing gas as a slow rate
> somewhat correlated with the ambient temperature. I am excited about
> bottling my cider. May I prevail upon someone with cider making more
> experience (probably anyone reading CD) for advice; should I continue to
> exercise patience and wait or am I safe in bottling at around this specific
> gravity 1.009?
Can't speak for NW Oregon but here in England April would be far too
early for MLF. The weather really needs to be above 15C consistently for
many weeks. My guess is that you have a slightly stuck yeast
fermentation which has got going again now the weather is a trifle
warmer. In any case MLF will not affect the SG, because it's malic acid
being metabolised, not sugar. The correlation of fermentation lock
actvity with ambient temperature could be in part a simple physical
'outgassing' effect. Size of bubble is no measure of the causative
organism. Often a MLF will not show any overt bubbles at all.
As for safety to bottle - it would be safe at 1.009 if in proper heavy
weight champagne bottles. Crown cap bottles are not regarded as safe if
the SG exceeds 1.005. If the cider is still fermenting in its carboy it
will continue to do so in bottle and provide you with a good level of
carbonation.
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1497, 24 April 2009
From: Steury and Noel <steurynoel@potlatch.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 06:43:23 -0700
re: what to plant
Frank, you asked about russets. Grimes Golden is not a russet, but
in some years can make a good single varietal cider. Light, fruity.
It's also my favorite eating apple. Golden Russet consistently makes
a good cider, rich and complex.
- --
Steury and Noel
1021 McBride Road
Potatch, ID 83855 USA
(208) 875-0804
------------------------------
Subject: Pollination
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:45:05 +0100
Here in Southern England the apple trees are blooming and a fine sight
it is. Will it be followed by fruit though? We have heard a lot on both
sides of the pond about Colony Collapse Disorder in honey bees and no
doubt it is a genuine issue even if its cause is uncertain. But I rarely
see a honey bee on my trees in any case whereas I see many wild bees and
other flying insects crawling over the blossom. Are these not effective
pollinators?
My question is ... to what extent is the honey bee an important
pollinator for people with small orchards surrounded by other vegetation
types and habitats where wild insects live? Obviously with large
commercial orchards, where any habitat for free living insects is far
distant, introduced honey bee hives are important... but for the rest of
us, is it the case? What experience do others have?
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest #1497
From: "Ray Blockley" <rayblockley@ntlworld.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:21:59 +0100
In Digest #1497, John wrote:
"While on a recent trip to Belgium, I had a Magners Irish Cider along with
some nice Normandy ciders. Strange to be asking for ciders in the heart of
beer country, I know. Didn't want to buy the Strongbow Gold, but a
storekeeper pulled this out so I bought some.
Any opinions on this cider, how it's made, what they use, taste, etc?"
Hi John,
Magners "Irish" cider has had a big influence on cider-buying here in the
UK, mainly due to the massive (and costly) advertising that has accompanied
it. It became very fashionable to drink it and the spin-off is a much
higher presence of cider in the UK market. However, it is not a "real"
cider by UK definitions, nor is it made 100% from "Irish" apples as much
of the cider apple fruit has apparently been sourced in the south-west of
England. However, Magners have planted more orchards in Ireland, some of
which I believe are true cider apples, although much of the fruit used in
these "Irish" ciders are culinary varieties, rather than the traditional
bittersweets and bittersharps more commonly used in the UK.
Magners has a curious colour, often described as "pink" which is most
probably not natural! It is carbonated artificially and sweetened quite
heavily, probably to mask the true nature of the fruit used. It would be
interesting to hear exactly what is given as ingredients on the labels
of export bottles, as labelling of alcoholic drinks is not compulsory
or even recommended here in the UK. I personally dislike it, but maybe
that's because I'm used to drinking pure juice ciders - from a range of
apple types - rather than something which probably owes more to the skill
of a laboratory technician than a skilled artisan cider-maker.
Magners is often classed as an "industrial cider" here in the UK due
to the way it is mass-manufactured. A true Normandy cider will be made
from little more than pure apple juice, but Magners cider most probably
contains water, sugar, various cereal-based syrups, and colouring agents,
as well as a probably-quite-low percentage of apple juice: I would guess
much less than 50% on a good day, more likely around 35%?
Cheers,
Ray
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1498
*************************
