Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1536
Subject: Cider Digest #1536, 30 October 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1536 30 October 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
correction to sulfur aroma posting ("Jaime Schier")
Re: CiderDays and GLINTCAP (Ben Watson)
#1535 Cider Days and Floating Pears in water ("Mike Beck")
Re: Cider Digest #1535, 26 October 2009 (Mike Faul)
renovating an orchard (Brian Jones)
Encapsulated MLF (Andrew Lea)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: correction to sulfur aroma posting
From: "Jaime Schier" <jschier@harpoonbrewery.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:10:30 -0400
Sorry for the confusion: I meant to say H2S aroma, not SO2 aroma in my
posting about sulfur in cider after packaging.
I should wait until my morning coffee kicks in before composing
emails...
Jaime Schier
QA/QC Manager
Harpoon Brewery
617.574.9551
------------------------------
Subject: Re: CiderDays and GLINTCAP
From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:38:07 -0400
Dear Cider Digesters,
I also might have an entry for GLINTCAP this year (if I can get it bottled
up and remember to bring it down to Cider Days on Nov. 7). So if there's a
good Samaritan who is willing to take it back to the Great Lakes, I'd be
appreciative. It's very difficult for me (and harder, I'm sure for Claude in
Quebec) to ship cider to this event.
Also, I have been remiss in not mentioning the Cider Days festival in
Franklin County, MA. This will be our 15th annual festival, and as usual we
have a mix of the tried-and-true workshops, panels, and tastings and a
smattering of new things --including, this year, a workshop from the
esteemed Digester himself, Monsieur Jolicoeur. For a full schedule of events
over the two days (Nov. 7-8) and locations, general information, etc., go to
the website: www.ciderday.org.
I have been busy nailing down the producers and ciders/perries that will be
featured at this year's Cider Salon. It looks like there will be 28
producers represented this year (up from about 17 in 2008), and some 66
different brands of ciders, perries, and fortified ciders/ice ciders to
sample. There are a couple of Herefordshire producers (Oliver's and
Henney's) and two from eastern Canada (County Cider Co. and TideView Cider),
in addition to some US producers who have not previously been included -- or
not for some time anyway. So it should be a jam-packed event, and we are
even having to expand it outside of the White Church in Historic Deerfield,
setting up an enclosed, heated (thank God) tent outside right next to the
venue -- thus giving us two "halls" for the Salon.
For anyone who wants to sample a wide range of ciders from some of the best
and most interesting producers in the US and a few international stars,
Cider Days is a great event to put on your calendar. Even if you can't join
us this year, this festival always occurs on the first weekend in November
- -- so plan to join us in 2010!
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: #1535 Cider Days and Floating Pears in water
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:49:07 -0400
1. Cider Days: Claude, Yes I will be making the Trek to Cider Days
and GLINTCAP. I always bring back a few cases of ciders from swapping
ciders with other participants. I will gladly make room for yours.
2. Floating Pears: Jeremy Kent, There are many products that you can
use to float pears. A commercial product called "Pear Float" is available.
However, I would use calcium chloride or brine water if available. Common
table salt will work as well. I have used both "Pear Float" & Brine Water.
(A brine well exists just 35 miles from us) the brine water was pumped in
via a tanker. (1000 gallon float tank)
Pear Float is available in 55g. drums and is added to water. If you can
buy calcium chloride in bags just keep adding to water until the density is
great enough to make em' float.
Mike Beck
Uncle John's Fruit House Winery & Distillery
St. John's, MI 48879
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1535, 26 October 2009
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:10:42 -0700
Jaime
can you tell us what yeast you are using? I have noticed significant SO2
aroma in post-packaging with two different yeasts but not with others.
Also, do you add any sulfur dioxide or sorbate prior to packaging?
Most if not all English and Irish ciders I have tasted are dosed pretty
heavily with SO2.
I'd suggest (if you haven't already) testing for SO2 to determine if it
is simply aromatic or if it is actual SO2.
Mike Faul
Owner
Red Branch Cider Company
Rabbit's Foot Meadery
------------------------------
Subject: renovating an orchard
From: Brian Jones <brjo90@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:27:06 -0400
I am looking for advise on renovating an orchard. The trees are closely
planted on an approximately 5 acre block in Western Massachusetts and
consist of Arkansas Black, Baldwin, Blue Pearmain, Calville Blanc, Cox
Orange Pippin, Foxwelp, Golden Russet, King David, Kingston Black,
Spitzenburg, Sops of Wine, Sheeps Nose, Westfield Seek No Further,
Yarlington Mills, Newtown Pippin, Ribston Pippin, and Roxbury Russet. I
believe that the last time it was worked was 5 to maybe even 10 years ago,
although there was generally good fruit 2 years ago despite the lack of
maintenance. This year looked much less productive. There are probably
a hundred trees in need of pruning/possible thinning and the orchard is
quite overgrown with brambles,etc.
My specific questions are:
How long after major work might it take to see a decent harvest?
Is it reasonable to expect the expense of renovation to be returned given
the marketplace for such apples and/or the cider made from them?
Any orchardists with this kind of expertise in Western MA?
I'd appreciate any comments,
Brian
Wendell, MA
------------------------------
Subject: Encapsulated MLF
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:50:57 +0000
Rich wrote:
> It does occur to me that there are encapsulated MLF products that would be
> useful to reduce excess acidity or make some interesting ciders. I am
> tempted but unsure if I want to blend a MFL cider in my standard product,
> the MFL ciders I have had are unique but over-the-top for many consumers.
> Has anyone worked with them?
I did not realise that there were encapsulated MLF products now in
addition to regular dried cultures - can you point us to some brand
names or links? Is the idea that you can remove them once they've done
just enough work?
My ciders can go malo-lactic spontaneously and they can sometimes
develop the consequent spicy / phenolic / old horse flavours (for which
of course there is a cultural history of acceptance here in the UK, at
least in some quarters!). This generally happens on longer storage of my
bottle conditioned ciders. I like them! There are many UK 'craft'
examples which are much more extreme than mine and this would be
regarded here as a positive quality factor. They rarely / never reach
the level of offensiveness which 'Brett' does in wines, though, which is
probably a matter of 'context'. I have not seen any routine analytical
data on 4-ethyl phenol in UK craft ciders, which would certainly be
interesting.
I have also used a MLF culture (Lallemand's BioStart Oenos) specifically
to reduce the acidity by about 40%, which it did very successfully.
There, however, there was absolutely no trace of those spicy flavours.
Nor was there any Chardonnay type butteriness either. There was a
certain 'smoothness' to the flavour (maybe just the effect of lactic
acid per se?) and I found it rather one-dimensional, though others liked
it and it took a First for Dry Cider at the Bath and West Show.
My point is that not all ML bacteria are created equal. Many of the
commercial examples perhaps lack the enzyme systems which are
responsible for flavour complexity, though they may be very good at
changing malic acid into lactic. Some of the early French work on these
cultures in cider (from the late 1980's) showed that they generated
D-lactic rather than L-lactic but also that they generated quite a lot
of acetic acid (another enzyme pathway in some lactic acid bacteria
which we could do without!). This did not happen in my trial. There is
obviously still quite a lot to learn and lots of experimenting to do!
And any experience gained with these cultures in wine does not
necessarily translate directly into their performance in ciders.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1536
*************************
