Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1487
Subject: Cider Digest #1487, 18 February 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1487 18 February 2009
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Hydrogen sulphide (Andrew Lea)
Clearing Cider (Andrew Lea)
my moldy cider (Jack O Feil)
finding Andrew's _Craft_Cider_Making_ (Dick Dunn)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Hydrogen sulphide
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:07:51 +0000
Sebastian wrote:
> We have made a good batch of serbian cider! thanks for the help. One
> of the barrels has become a bit eggy tho.
> Which of the following methods are the best methods for removing
> hydrogen sulphide
> 1) Adding sulphides
> 2) Inducing malolactic fermentation with addition of sulphides
Never heard of those two. Can't imagine any form of sulphide would
diminish H2S. If that's a typo and you mean sulphite, that wouldn't work
either. And addition of sulphite wouldn't encourage MLF - it would
inhibit it. I never heard of MLF reducing H2S. Sounds a bit of a long
shot to me.
> 3)Adding copper sulfate pentahydrate. This involves leaving it to
> settle as residue at the bottom of the barrel after a few days, then
> racking leaving the residue behind.
Yup that works for sure. But only a *very* small amount is needed (one
or 2 parts per million as the salt). Be sure you can measure it
accurately. Use 'serial dilution' of a stock solution and double check
your calculations. I have seen a US textbook which quotes addition of 4
g copper sulphate per 1000 gallons (38 hL) to give an increase in copper
content of 0.2 parts per million (mg/l). That's the sort of level you're
looking at.
> 4)What sort of surface area does the open container you rack into need
> to have to allow the juice to aerate enough to get rid of the hydrogen
> sulphide.
It doesn't really work like that. You can't easily aerate H2S away
without damaging the cider. It's not advised to rack into open
containers. Air is bad news for cider and encourages the H2S to change
to disulphides which are even worse and not removed by copper. Nitrogen
sparging of H2S is an alternative possibility. H2S does often disappear
from newly fermented cider but probably mostly due to back adsorption
onto yeast. Remember the amounts involved are tiny - parts per billion only.
Andrew Lea
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Clearing Cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:30:34 +0000
Fairy Landing Gardens wrote:
> These jugs are in a 52 to 55 degree area. Of one of the blended batches
> of juice [25 gal] 10 gals are clear and 15 gals are not. The later
> earlier squeeze are all clearing well. To clear to use gelatin,
> sparkolides,or bentenite tis the question. The wine is near finish at 0.996.
>
You don't say where in the world you are but it's only mid February. I
would give it a bit more time (a couple of months) and maybe drop the
temperature to around 40F (4C) if you can, before concluding they're not
clearing. Vessel size and geometry can have an effect on clearing time
and initiation (due to thermoclines / circulation patterns).
Bentonite on its own is for protein which is not relevant in cider.
Sparkaloid is a polysaccharide not usually effective in cider. Gelatin
is OK but very easy to overfine. Chitosan is often used professionally
and worth investigating if you can get it. If you must eventually fine,
I would use gelatin / bentonite as a combination fining or, better,
gelatin / kieselsol if you can get it. Make sure you use special
beverage grade gelatin, not the sort used for cooking. Do test finings
first. More details on my website (see Science of Cidermaking Part 5) or
in my book.
Andrew Lea
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: my moldy cider
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:39:53 -0800
Shaun Carney suggests the mold formed because the ph may have been too
high, that may well be as I didn't test but the fact that the apples I
used had been stored for four months may have had something to do with
it. While the apples( Braeburn and Goldens) were still firm and juicy,
that length of time in storage may have mellowed them enough to cause the
ph to be high? I've used that apple combination before with apples stored
for one month with no problem. I'll test the ph for the next batch..
Thanks for the input, Jack Feil
------------------------------
Subject: finding Andrew's _Craft_Cider_Making_
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:43:49 -0700
For those of us in North America, there's a trip-up in trying to locate
Andrew Lea's book, _Craft_Cider_Making_: If you try to get it from Amazon,
they have two listings for the book. One is a blind alley, due to there
being two ISBNs for the book but only one useful here. Andrew advises
that the correct Amazon entry is:
http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Cider-Making-Andrew-Lea/dp/1904871372/ref=ed_oe_p
This confusion is featured only at amazon.com (afaik!). If you're in
the UK or more convenient to there, finding it via amazon.co.uk will work.
And, of course, there are other sellers for the book. If you have problems
with one, the US importer's link is:
http://www.voyageurpress.com/Store/ProductDetails_41551.ncm
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1487
*************************
