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Cider Digest #1531
Subject: Cider Digest #1531, 28 September 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1531 28 September 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
oak barrell (Tim Sandstrom)
Re: Cider Digest #1530, 16 September 2009 (Sketchpub@aol.com)
What PME stands for (Shawn Carney)
PME ("Mark Johnson")
Re: Cider Digest #1530, 16 September 2009 (Claude Jolicoeur)
Water Usage ("Rich Anderson")
PME (Donald Davenport)
2009 cider apples (Stephen Wood)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: oak barrell
From: Tim Sandstrom <tunisontim@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:40:20 -0400
I was given an oak whisky barrel from my daughter 3 years ago.. She found it
at , of all places, wal-mart. I have not opened it and it has been well
cared for. I wish to have Hollenbecks Cider Mill fill it for me. They can do
it unpasteurized if I get it to them early.
Should I fill it with water first to rinse it(?) or to swell up the
fittings(?)
any suggestions?
After full is it OK to roll it up ramps to get into/out of my truck??
Thanks
Tim
- --
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always
got"
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1530, 16 September 2009
From: Sketchpub@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:19:35 EDT
To Scott H.
Re: Water usage
I once kept track of my water usage at my winery (where I also make a small
batch of cider, Irvine's Vintage Cider). Memory tells me it was about
3,000 gallons and I produce about 1,200 gallons (or 500 cases) of wine (and
cider); therefore, about 2.5 gallons of water per gallon of wine. I think if
you estimated about 3 gallons of water per gallon of cider you would be
pretty close.
In cider production it is probably slightly less unless you are also using
oak barrels which require more water for rinsing and soaking.
And it is possible to recycle some of that water, or reuse some of the wash
water.
Ron Irvine
Irvine's Vintage Cider
Vashon Winery
Vashon Island
PS: CiderFest; a Harvest Celebration takes place on October 10 in the
Farmers' Market on Vashon Island. Scheduled events include: cider tasting of
about a dozen cider companies (pouring nearly twenty different ciders), fresh
cider production, seminar on cider making, apple identification, a cider
press raffle and a bunch of activities for children, followed in the evening
with an-over-the-top Barn dance. (All benefiting Rotary International)
------------------------------
Subject: What PME stands for
From: Shawn Carney <shawn@blossomwoodcidery.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:28:34 -0400
> what PME stands for?
I believe it's Pedafilasophical Methodist Evangelist??? but I may be
wrong. The E could also stand for Excretion?
Also, a less popular definition is Pectin Methyl Esterase.
Shawn
------------------------------
Subject: PME
From: "Mark Johnson" <friendlypool@astound.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:15:42 -0700
I answered my own question. PME stands for Pectin Methyl Esterase. I found
2 producers in the US.
Michele McKinney
Valley Research
Western Region Manager
141 Columbia Park Trail
Richland, WA 99352
574-232-5000 main
509-546-1051 cell
The above sells it in 20 Kilo pails for about $980.00 a pail. The other
place is Specialty Enzymes out of Southern California. Their price is even
higher.
Website is www.specialtyenzymes.com. I spoke to a Tech person named Vic.
He was supposed to call me back but hasn't yet.
My Question would be what size package should the product be broken down
into? 30 grams? 60g? 100g? 500g? 1kg?
Then what would be a reasonable mark-up and what would the market really be?
I think I remember a message saying one to 1.5 ounces per five gallon batch.
That plus the Calcium Chloride. Would it be beneficial to work out a
Keeving Package, more or less standardized to a five gallon batch which
would include both chemicals?
Inquiring minds want to Know.
Mark "Ciderman" Johnson
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1530, 16 September 2009
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:11:13 -0400
In Cider Digest #1530, 16 September 2009
>Subject: misidentified cider varieties in US (repeating a plea)
>From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
>
>"Tremlett's Bitter" - again, name for an English apple, and what's sold
>in the US under this name is nothing of the sort. Our not-a-TB looks
>similar, and is quite bitter (hard tannin), but it's a bittersharp
>whereas the true TB is a bittersweet.
>
Dick,
This is interesting as the Tremlett's Bitter that I have, which I got from
the Canadian Clonal Genebank in Ontario, is a bittersweet. It is still
quite young and I was only able to make one juice test, but I got a TA of
0.35% (as Tartaric) and a SG of 1.063. The look of the apples is fairly
similar to the pictures from Copas. So my guess is that I probably have the
true to name variety.
For the Fauxwhelp, in my opinion, this is a completely useless apple for
cider. The juice test I did from mine gave a SG of 1.044 and a TA of 1.3%.
I would think this is either an obscure English cooker, or a wild seedling
that was propagated by mistake. In my opinion, the apple surely has no
quality that would make it of any value! Further, it is one of the ugliest
apples that I have ever seen. Well, maybe it has a quality - it is
resistant to scab. In any case, that one will probably be cut or topgrafted
in a near future...
Claude
in Quebec
------------------------------
Subject: Water Usage
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:14:30 -0700
You can start by asking what kinds of tasks require water. For example how
often do you expect to wash done the facilities, tanks etc? Next, consider
how the water is delivered, for example from a hose or pressure washer. I
use a pressure washer that has a rated flow of 2.5 gallons/min. The apple
washer has four small spray heads @ 1 gallon/min. Finally how long will each
task take? When I press, the wash-up portion generally takes at least 30
minutes. Washing up a 500 gallon stainless steel tank, the water wash and
rinse normally do not require more than 5 minutes. On the other hand when
pressing, running the apple washer typically requires 6 or more hours.
Build a spread sheet, with tasks, occurrences and time. It should be
interesting and at least give you a basis on which to estimate water usage
and back it up. When in doubt use a stop watch and container to estimate
flows. Sort of sounds like old fashioned industrial engineering:)
------------------------------
Subject: PME
From: Donald Davenport <djdavenport@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:05:34 -0600
Just a late night/over-worked reaction to the current thread (which I
think I started) about PME.
If PME aids in the process of, as the French call it, défecation,
perhaps it is nothing more than a rather expensive, industrial-
strength laxative.
Thanks a million to Tim Steury for getting me a starter sample. Now,
the rest is up to the fates.
Don
------------------------------
Subject: 2009 cider apples
From: Stephen Wood <swood@farnumhillciders.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:09:29 -0400
This harvest season, we again have several thousand bushels of bittersweet
and bittersharp cider apples available to other cidermakers from our cider
orchards in Lebanon and Plainfield, NH. As ever, we will give preference
to cidermakers who have bought apples from us in the past; thereafter, the
apples will be available first come, first served. As with all of our
crops, we will only pick what we need ourselves, or what we are fairly
certain of being able to sell, so cidermakers who want some of this fruit
should contact me soon -- we will honor reservations.
The most abundant early varieties this year are Ellis Bitter and Major
(early/mid-September); late are Yarlington Mill and Chisel Jersey
(October). We'll have moderate volumes of other varieties, (including
Ashton Bitter, Somerset Redstreak, Bulmers' Norman, Dabinett, Kingston Black
and Michelin). We follow the English and French practice of letting the
fruit hang until most of it is dropping, then gently shaking the trees and
harvesting the fruit from the ground. Unlike commercial European
operations, we often harvest more than once, depending on regularity of
ripening, and we pick from the ground by hand, to try to leave as much rot
as possible behind. In my experience, this is the best way to achieve the
highest possible degree of ripeness. That said, these are drops, and need to
be milled and pressed pretty quickly after harvest; they also sometimes need
to be washed at the press, depending on the muddiness of the harvest season.
We will consider (with sufficient volumes) custom hand-picking, custom
picking into your bins, or custom pressing the fruit for you (or having it
pressed), and sulfiting the juice according to your instructions -- in each
case, we would need your bins or tanks here in advance. We can also
accommodate or arrange tanker trucks or dump trailers for larger volumes.
You may call (603 448 1511) or email (swood@farnumhillciders.com) to reserve
cider fruit, or to check prices (unchanged since last year).
Stephen Wood
Farnum Hill Ciders
Lebanon, NH 03766
603 448 1511
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End of Cider Digest #1531
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