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Cider Digest #1500
Subject: Cider Digest #1500, 1 May 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1500 1 May 2009
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
contemplating 1500 issues of the Cider Digest (Cider Digest Janitor)
book offer (Frank Stevens)
Re: What would you plant this spring (Tim Bray)
More Pollination ("Rich Anderson")
Pollination (Andrew Lea)
Magners (Andrew Lea)
Pollination ("Christian Layke")
1500th Cider Digest Issue (Andrew Lea)
Stock Red, Porters, and Major (deva maas)
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Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
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Subject: contemplating 1500 issues of the Cider Digest
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Janitor)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 00:59:20 -0600 (MDT)
I've been asked if there's anything special for the 1500th issue of the
Cider Digest. The short answer is "no". It's just a number. But we use
round numbers sometimes to take a moment to look back and forward.
First off, let me note that this is not "Dick Dunn's" Cider Digest, as some
people seem to think. I didn't start it; in fact I didn't take over until
more than 500 issues (1/3 of the current total!) had come out. Thank
Jay Hersh for setting it up and running it for the first several years.
Also please note that I am not a moderator. I shovel out the spam and
mailer problems, and I clean up postings to plain text in a consistent
character set (in other words, make it readable). I make mechanical checks
for certain problems. But I avoid judging content! So if you think the
Cider Digest is doing a good job, thank the people who write for it--both
for writing well and for exercising restraint.
Now, where are we? As a homebrewer, then a meadmaker, and only finally
coming to true enlightenment as a cidermaker, I see that cider today in
the US is barely coming into its own--progressing, but with a lot of ground
left to cover. Cider (and cidermakers) in other parts of the world are in
much better shape, particularly in the UK and France.
Homebrewers had to put up with generic malt, dubious cheesy hops, and
stale yeast...but eventually got their avocation up to quality ingredients
and good practices. Commercial beer finally broke out of the "industrial"
mold with the microbrewery boom in the US, and with renewed interest in
small brewers and cask ales in the UK. Cider is (finally!) following a
similar path--this is new for the US but more a renaissance in the UK.
Depending on your location, you may be able to find excellent commercial
full-juice ciders, not just the sad six-pack ciders which are really
industrial "glucose wines". You can order trees to plant which will give
you good character in your cider, properly balancing sugar/tannin/acid.
There are books (plural!) with sound information to help you. Cider is
being judged in serious competition, and although it's often a side-show
to beer, the judging criteria have finally gotten onto solid ground.
BUT you still can't go into a bar, nor even a good brewpub, and expect to
get a real cider. General understanding of cider, especially in North
America isn't good.
Anyway, the Cider Digest has played a tiny part in the progress, in
bringing people together. We are fortunate to have contributors with
exceptional knowledge and/or experience.
Now...where do we go from here?
Occasionally people request an online web-type interface for material,
or article-at-a-time ("instant") mailings. But overall I've heard
that people prefer the periodic "digest" so that they get a chunk of
cider conversation all at once. And the two styles (instant and digest)
don't mix; everyone gets confused as to who said what when. So, for now,
I'll keep it with the staid, spartan digest style.
Things I know:
There should be a better welcome message for new subscribers. A real
FAQ list would save us re-hashing topics. The web page right now is
little more than a place-holder. The Cider Digest really is -just-
the mailing list, and I perceive that people are disappointed when
they first join, that there's not more material.
I've got a scattering of disorganized material and various notes on what
to do...BUT if you have suggestions on how to move the CD into the 21st
century(!), I'd like to hear them. If it's simple ideas you can send them
to the janitor address off-list (cider-request@talisman.com); I'll reply and
also give a summary in a future digest. If you think it needs discussion,
post an article here. (But please keep in mind that we want to be talking
about cider matters most of the time.)
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: book offer
From: Frank Stevens <moose49017@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:33:39 +0000 (UTC)
Chris,
I would be very interested in the book. Let me know if it is still available.
Thanks,
Frank Stevens
Battle Creek, MI USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: What would you plant this spring
From: Tim Bray <tbray@wildblue.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:30:37 -0700
Tim Brod recommended Gravenstein as a single-variety apple. I grow that
apple, in both the antique and modern variants, and there is at least
one commercial cidery (Ace) making cider from it - but I cannot agree
that it makes a particularly good cider. It makes great *juice* because
it has an excellent tart/sweet balance, but once fermented it is way too
acidic for my taste, and there isn't much flavor or character to the
finished cider. It sure is great eating, though!
(Whenever anybody recommends a tart apple for cider, I always have to
wonder if they really mean cider, or juice. I've never had a really
good cider - as we define the word here - made from tart apples. They
are always too acidic after fermentation.)
Dan Spoelstra recommended King David, and I'll enthusiastically second
that. King David is hands-down the best cider apple I grow. It makes a
wonderfully complex cider with full, rich apple flavor. I want to rework
most of my orchard over to KD; apparently it loves my climate and soil.
Cheers,
Tim Bray in Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: More Pollination
From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:10:05 -0700
Nothing like a good orchard topic to stir up a little mail.
I have about 1000 apple trees in my San Juan Island orchard and rely on a
native population of what appear to be mix of bees, honey, mason and bumble
as well as some small wasps. I have always had a good fruit set. We had two
domestic hives in the orchard for several years, but it did not appear to
make a difference, but that may be attributed to the fact that the
domesticated bees were not well cared for. The owner would go to Mexico
every winter and return in mid spring to some very sad hives.
With the mix of varieties, the bloom stretches over a six week period. It is
complimented by native plant blooms from arbutus, choke cherries and service
berry. Not surrounded by commercial agricultural, there is no use of
insecticides to deplete these natives.
------------------------------
Subject: Pollination
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:30:56 +0100
Many thanks to all who responded to my honey bee query. Seems that the
answer is "it all depends"....!! I know my little orchard gets well
pollinated, no matter who it is that's doing it!
Andrew
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Magners
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:52:29 +0100
John wrote:
> I went to the Mangers
> website to read the fine print only to find that it was also made by
> Bulmers.
Yes but that's Bulmers of Clonmel, Ireland, not Bulmers of Hereford,
England (who make Strongbow and are now owned by Heineken). The two
companies are not now related and haven't been for 60 years (though they
once were). Magners (owned by the Irish C and C group) have the right to
the Bulmer name in Ireland but nowhere else.
Just to amplify what Ray wrote, the buzz in the industry is that Magners
*export* cider is made from fresh fruit (and glucose syrup of course)
but never from concentrate (which is kept for their domestic product).
This means that in off-season they are reduced to importing fresh apples
from the southern hemisphere eg New Zealand to continue production. They
built huge amounts of new tank capacity to accommodate all this cider a
couple of years back, but are now saddled with it unused as the bottom
has dropped out of their market and their CEO resigned
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/09/fooddrinks>. The 'over
ice' was a passing fad which they created but soon passed out of their
control, not least due to the marketing efforts of Bulmers (England).
Andrew Lea
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Pollination
From: "Christian Layke" <CLayke@wri.org>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:54:35 -0400
Given the number of respondents to the question about pollination by
native bees, I thought I would post a link to these resources on
managing for native bees and other non-honeybee pollinators
(http://www.xerces.org/guidelines/). Many native bees are, indeed, very
effective apple pollinators (more so than honeybees--but are typically
not at populous). Even without CCD, it makes sense to help native insect
populations by diversifying nectar sources and ensuring sufficient food
and cover throughout the year.
Erec, since you note you are interested in minimizing bee mortality, you
may want to contact Mace Vaughan on how to minimize any bee mortality
when spraying for coddling moth (maybe based on time of day you spray?--
the publication "Pollinators in Natural Areas" touches on the
possibility of timing the application). Mace works at the Xerces
Society, which is based in Portland, so he may be able to give you some
locally relevant guidance He is a good friend and works with farmers
on these kinds of issues, so I'm sure he would welcome your inquiry. =20
Andrew, I imagine these same principles would apply in England as well
as North America.
Christian Layke
Takoma Park, MD
------------------------------
Subject: 1500th Cider Digest Issue
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@HarpHill.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:40:17 +0100
The Cider Digest is 1500 issues old today. I've sent it a little
commemorative note at http://www.cider.org.uk/digest.html
Raise a glass and celebrate!
Andrew Lea
------------------------------
Subject: Stock Red, Porters, and Major
From: deva maas <devamaas@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 06:10:55 -0700
I was just wondering if anyone out there could comment on Stoke
Red. Porter's Perfection and Major. I have read what there is on these
varieties but am curious of real grower and cider making experiences.
Topics like disease resistance, precosity, productivity, and cider quality
is what I am looking for. I have some of each of these planted and am
considering topworking/planting more and would like to know how others
feel about them.
Thanks a lot, Eric --- Burdett NY
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End of Cider Digest #1500
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