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Cider Digest #1506
Subject: Cider Digest #1506, 27 May 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1506 27 May 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: barrels (Terry Bradshaw)
Re: Clear v. Amber v. Green (Terry Bradshaw)
Re: Grafting questions (Terry Bradshaw)
Biennialism (deva maas)
grafting varieties and rootstock ("Mark Parranto")
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Subject: Re: barrels
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:36:35 -0400
I have ordered barrels from OESCO Inc (Orchard Equipment and Supply
Company) in Conway, MA. Prised $75 per barrel a couple of years ago.
Phone 800 634-5557. Short drive from VT (I'm here too, in Calais), can
always fit in stops at Farnum Hill, West County, and if you wait 'til
fall, Cider Days.
TB
>> Used brandy and whisky barrels are getting harder to procure. That
>> being what I use to put up cider in. Our closest source seems to be Atlantc
>> Horticulture in Quebec. Does anyone know of an alternative source
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Subject: Re: Clear v. Amber v. Green
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:39:03 -0400
Best in my opinion is stainless steel (draft keg). Next is whatever
bottle you can get it in, Champagne, 22 oz bomber, wine bottle. Color
is last on my list, keep them cool and dark in the basement and you'll
be fine.
TB
> Hello Everyone in Ciderland.
>
> I haven't searched the archives yet. I should blow the dust off a few
> books, but does anyone have any quick comments on cider bottled in clear
> bottles versus amber bottles versus green bottles.
>
> My concern is the quality of the cider if it gets exposed to sun, but any
> comments would be appreciated.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Grafting questions
From: Terry Bradshaw <terryb@lostmeadowvt.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:46:18 -0400
> For the orchardists here, a couple questions about topworking:
>
> 1. Can I successfully graft an early-bloomer onto a late-bloomer? I
> have Sweet Coppin which breaks bud late, and doesn't produce well here,
> and I'd like to rework it over to King David - which blooms early. KD
> is in full bloom right now, but SC has just begun bud swell. So if I
> graft KD onto the SC scaffold branches, will it work?
I was going to chime in and say no problem, but your last post about the
late blooming interstock delaying the earlier blooming scion has me
thinking. Rootstocks definitely can delay blooming, and I have a block
of topworked trees next to a companion block of the same varieties that
is 1/2 - 1 day behind in the spring...these are grafted on 'normal'
blooming McIntosh and Liberties. So I expect your tress will indeed be a
bit delayed.
> 2. How late in spring can I successfully cleft-graft? Again with the
> KD/SC comparison - if I have dormant scionwood from KD (collected in
> January, stored in fridge), can I graft onto the just-budding SC?
You can cleft graft into summer if you have good dormant wood. The
danger is that the vigorous scion growth may not shut down early enough
in fall to harden off, setting yourself up for winter kill. In your CA
location that may be less of a concern.
>
> 3. Is cleft-grafting in spring the only way to rework a tree, or can I
> bud- or chip-graft in late summer/fall?
Big grafts such as topworking a tree are best with cleft or bark
grafting in spring with dormant wood. Bud/chip grafts work best on
small-diameter stock; to find that on an established tree you'll have to
graft way out on a limb, leaving little room for the varity to take over.
Sorry 'bout the late responses, this is the busiest couple of weeks of
the year for an orchard guy.
TB
------------------------------
Subject: Biennialism
From: deva maas <devamaas@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 06:18:13 -0700
A quick question on biennialism. In 2004 I planted three Michelin
trees on G16. Last year was the first "real" crop. Each tree had abundant
blossoms and I thinned fruit to roughly one apple per cluster. The apples
ripened well and the trees showed strong growth, which indicated to me the
trees were not stressed. This year two of the trees showed abundant blossoms
again, and one tree had zero flowers. They all were planted the same year,
all the same rootstock, all the same variety, the only differance is the
two flowering trees are next to one another and the nonflowering tree is
at the other end of the orchard, no major soil differance. First of all
I didn't think Michelin tended towards biennialism, second what causes a
tree to get started in this cycle?
------------------------------
Subject: grafting varieties and rootstock
From: "Mark Parranto" <mparranto@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 00:09:54 -0500
There have been lots of questions lately about grafting scion wood to other
apple varieties. In my experience it makes no difference what root stock is
grafted. The variety is genetically predispositioned to bloom at a certain
time, based in my opinion, most likely on degree days. I have some
varieties on various rootstocks and they bloom at the same time. It makes
no difference if the rootstock is Bud 9, M26, M7 or M 111 (going form
smallest to largest) the bloom for that variety happens at the same time.
I agree with Scott Smith. The variety determines the bloom date and not the
root stock or the host. I have grafted different varieties to the same
branch just for the fun of seeing if I could. The branch successfully grew
4 different apples that bloomed with the same variety on it's own tree and
ripened with its brother(sister?) apples. It seems that as long as the
variety will grow in your area and climate, it will also grow on a graft to
any other apple tree that grows in your climate
I have also seen comments on varieties that are biennial, with the apparent
opinion that nothing can be done about that habit of the tree. But it can.
Nest time your biennial tree is in it heavy year, chemically thin the
apples. Naphthalene Acetic Acid, NAA along with Sevin insecticide does a
good job of thinning hard to thin varieties. Thinning is an art and not a
science. It should be done when the apples are small say 6 - 10mm. the
idea is to have a moderate crop and not a heavy one. The tree then has more
energy to put into forming buds for next years crop, which is done by the
end of June around here. There is an excellent small book, Apple Thinning
Guide by Phillip Schwallier of Michigan State University on the subject. As
a bonus, not only do you get apples in the "off" year but this years apples
will be larger, so you are not " throwing away" part of the crop.
Mark Parranto
Applewood orchard, Inc.
mparranto@frontiernet.net
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End of Cider Digest #1506
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