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Cider Digest #1559
Subject: Cider Digest #1559, 9 April 2010
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1559 9 April 2010
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: Grafting tool (Andy Kranz-McGuire)
Grating Tool (Jim Cummins)
Cidermaker's Forum (Diane Flynt)
grafting machine (derek bisset)
Re: Cider Digest #1558, 6 April 2010 (Stephen Wood)
Grafting tools (chris horn)
MLF and Sulfites ("Howard, John")
Dick Dunn's grafting tool inquiry (peter elderkin)
Re: Cider Digest #1558, 6 April 2010 (Mark Ellis)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: Grafting tool
From: Andy Kranz-McGuire <kran0072@umn.edu>
Date: 06 Apr 2010 12:29:21 -0500
I'm a novice, but an experienced orchardist helped me do some grafting
recently. We used a tool like that, except that the cut was a simple 'V'
rather than the omega shape. I haven't seen the results, but it's what this
commercial grower friend of mine uses and he's happy. We did a couple whip
and tongue and I definitely prefer the tool.
We placed smaller scion pieces to one side, so that the cambium was in
contact at least on that one side. If it were centered, there would be no
cambial contact. Make sense?
Andy KM
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Subject: Grating Tool
From: Jim Cummins <rootstocks@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:28:40 -0400
Dick, we've tried a considerable variety of grafting tools. This
machine and a couple of other Omega-cut jobs have given around 80%
take with grapevines -- acceptable because the plant material is so
cheap and readily available.
On apples, though, the story goes downhill. The Omegas give us 60-70%
success rates, far below acceptable for apples because of cost of
rootstocks. Contrary to ads, the omega grafts are not structurally
strong, compared to good whip and tongue grafts. This becomes
critical the first day a batch of starlings lands in the nursery row!!
Plant material does make a difference. A rootstock with relatively
soft wood, e.g. MM.106, will give better cuts and better success than
something like Geneva 30 with lots of nodal hard tissue.
An option not often tried on apples is dormant chip-budding. Working
with dormant stocks and dormant scions, one simply throws on normal
chip buds; allow time for callusing as with regular W&T graftsm then
plant out and cut back after new growth has started. We don't get
quite as good take as with W&T but it's good enough. Especially if
scionwood is in short supply.
//Jim Cummins
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Subject: Cidermaker's Forum
From: Diane Flynt <dflynt@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:49:25 -0400
Albemarle Ciderworks and Vintage Virginia Apples near
Charlottesville, VA will host a Cidermaker's Forum on Saturday April
17 from 10 to 4. Speakers will explore the art and science of
cidermaking and cider apple growing in this 8th annual event. Two VA
cidermakers are reviving the art and science of artisan cidermaking?
Chuck Shelton at Albemarle Ciderworks and Diane Flynt at Foggy Ridge
Cider are featured speakers along with cider and apple dignitaries,
Tom Burford and Ben Watson. Jocelyn Kuzelka, an enology consultant
who has also worked with cidermaking, will also speak. The $85 fee
includes lunch and all materials, plus a cider tasting. The orchards
in bloom are free of charge. Reserve a spot at
www.vintagevirginiaapples.com
Also on April 17, Chef Mark Gresge of L'Etoile restaurant in
Charlottesville will create a dinner featuring cider from Foggy Ridge
Cider and Albemarle Ciderworks, along with local ingredients. Chef
Gresge is a classically trained chef who has long championed local
food producers. The dinner will be held in the new Albemarle
Ciderworks tasting room. For those who wish to stay for dinner,
reserve a spot at 434 979-7957.
The Vintage Virginia Apples website lists local lodging options for
those who plan to stay the night. Albemarle Ciderworks and Vintage
Virginia Apples are close to Monticello, and about 3 hours from Foggy
Ridge Cider in SW Virginia (where it is not yet spring).
Diane Flynt
Foggy Ridge Cider
1328 Pineview Road
Dugspur, VA 24325
276.398.4041 Office
276.398.2337 Cider House
336.253.7141 Mobile
www.foggyridgecider.com
------------------------------
Subject: grafting machine
From: derek bisset <derekbsst@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:26:22 -0700
I looked at the grafting machine you describe and decided it would be a poor
idea with apple wood being harder that grape and , in my case , usually a
size mismatch between rootstock and scion .
Using a grafting knife to make whip and tongue grafts on hand held
rootstock and scions can be difficult .I found it gets progressively more
difficult , and dangerous , to get a good match with thicker materials and
devised a work around . I made a groove in a bench edge to hold the stock
and attached a small plane blade to a push handle . I cut the stock to about
the correct length ,place it in the groove and push the blade over it .It
feels much safer and the angle of the groove makes the match perfect .It
still leaves the tongue to be made by hand .An anvil pruner works but not
well to do that.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1558, 6 April 2010
From: Stephen Wood <swood@farnumhillciders.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 16:19:34 -0400
Looks like snake oil to me -- I'll bet I could break it in a day (if I
didn't throw it into the pond first). I've bought a fair few grafting
tools, in more susceptible days. I've never found one that can match a
sharp knife for precision and adaptability. And I suspect you're right,
Dick -- mismatched diameters would present a problem with this creature.
Sharpen your knife, upgrade your reading glasses, and have a glass of finest
cider to steady your hand.
best,
Steve Wood
------------------------------
Subject: Grafting tools
From: chris horn <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 13:36:55 -0700
I have seen the automatic grafting cutters. There is always one or two
that show up when we do the grafting for the public at the Home Orchard
Society scion wood exchange here locally. I think they work OK when the
sizes are really close but the performance drops off as the sizes become
even minutely different.
My prefered method of grafting is still with a straight, single
sided blade. My own knife is a Victorinox grafting and budding knife
(http://www.groworganic.com/item_PK960_Victorinox_Budding__Grafting_Kni.html).
If you are still having issues with getting a long, flat single faced cut
on the whip and tounge grafts, consider getting a low angle block plain to
take a lick or two on the cut to get a very flat, straight face to match to.
Good Luck,
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon
'He that drinks his cyder alone, let him catch his horse alone.'
-Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790
------------------------------
Subject: MLF and Sulfites
From: "Howard, John" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:02:05 -0400
I've often read that MLF will not occur in the presence of sulfites. I
would very much like to discourage a MLF this year as I want to keep all
the acidity I have. How many ppm should do the trick?
John Howard
Philadelphia PA USA
------------------------------
Subject: Dick Dunn's grafting tool inquiry
From: peter elderkin <elderkinsapples@accesswave.ca>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:11:36 -0300
the grafting tool Dick was talking of works fine. simular sized wood is
best but having one side line up works fine
Pete Elderkin, Nova Scotia
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1558, 6 April 2010
From: Mark Ellis <mark@zymurgia.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 08:33:59 +1000
G'day Dick,
Yes we have one, but only really use it on nice fat pencils. The main problem
with it is that it is such a short cut that it really needs to be well
matched for strength of the bond and tied very well with the grafting tape.
Having said that we get 95%+ success rate with it. I consider it "my"
tool, but my father (semi-retired "lifer" orchardist) still prefers his
trusty super sharp pocketknife.
Cheers
Mark E. in Oz
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End of Cider Digest #1559
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